Friday, 18 February 2011

Whipped into shape???

Hi guys,

I thought I wouldn't be in the office today (and so would have to update yesterday) however, thanks to the 'great' guys at BT (yeah, right) I'm sitting at my desk ploughing through my work.

So anywho, here's this week's slightly quick update.

Dan our designer mentioned we tried a different pose for Captain Marvel, well below is how this turned out. While I don't really agree with Dan about the 'fetish' look, I do think it doesn't work. The pose was too rigid and not natural enough. The legs are also too close together, we considered putting him on a larger base but then the figure had too much dead space in front and behind.

Hopefully you will agree we made the right decision.



Your sneak peeks for this week are Forge and Thunderbird painted.






One final comment from me, thanks for all the debate about subsets. I've only had time to skim read them but some of the suggestions are great. As I mentioned we're not planning to make any for Marvel just yet but you never know. Personally I'd like a 20 issue extension over a subset but that's just me.

Have a great one everybody and enjoy your President's Day holiday on Monday, you lucky Americans.

247 comments:

1 – 200 of 247   Newer›   Newest»
Joeking said...

Personally i like the capatain marvel pose, loving forge.

REM Warlock

pirate adam said...

Rich you missed the opportunity for a BIG MAN HUG there by not showing us a glimpse of the Odin sculpt, never mind i'll hold it in stasis till somebody else proves worthy.

PA

AVENGERS -87 said...

Thanks Rich . Thunderbird and Forge are great and the pose of Captain Marvel , you're choising the best . Fantastic job

Ryan Maxwell said...

Today, on a very Native American blog update...

They look great, thanks for showing us some sneaks.

Anke said...

Well, what's done is done. I personally regret you did not choose this clapping wrist bands pose of C.M. We missed a chance to get a character in a very unique and different pose compared to all the others. Forge for example does not have more space for his stretched feet either.

Chris said...

Good choice on losing the Captain Marvel sculpt. He looked like a Chippendale's dancer.

ted sallis said...

I would have loved to have seen Cap in his iconic "clangers" pose, however you went with the right choice, the fig shown is too overmuscled the steroid abuser looks far too awkward in that stance , if you had gone with the Gil Kane graceful athletic look it may have worked, hey ho!
Thunderbird is bloomin fantastic.

The Hood said...

I prefer the pose for Captain Marvel that was already chosen, Thunderbird and Forge look great. I would also prefer another 20 issue extension instead of a sub-set, and if there is one I would hope it would include, Werewolf By Night, Brother Voodoo, Howard The Duck, Jigsaw and The Hood.

Robert said...

Interesting to see the rejected Captain Marvel pose. It looks unnatural. Not hard to see why, though. Look at the elbows. They are pointing 90 degrees away from the direction he is facing. You could draw a line from an elbow, across the shoulders to the opposite elbow. No wonder, then, that it looks so uncomfortable (and made Dan think his arms had been forced backwards by some sort of kinky device). If you go back and look at Mar-Vell's poses in the comics, his arms are in front of his body, elbows pointing forward, or pointing diagonally away. Even without reference, try to bash your wrists together and see what way you do it. See? Copying the pose from the figure makes doing this very difficult, almost impossible - the way your muscles are constructed means they just get in the way! Basically, the way this figure is clashing his wrists together doesn't make any kind of sense.

A pose showing Mar-Vell clashing his power bands together would have worked fine. Unfortunately, the sculptor BOTCHED the whole thing.

mgf said...

Thunderbird looks superb! Very impressed.

We got the right Mar-Vell pose, although I agree with Ted that a slimmer Gil Kane version would have been a good option.

If we had the arms above the head Cap I would not have been able to look at him without thinking of Adam & The Ant's Prince Charming video.

Does Forge really roll a piece of blue spandex halfway up his robot leg? What a strange thing to do...

Thor8 said...

The sneak peeks presented this week look very nice,they wil be included in my want list. As for The Captain Marvel pose I wold have prefered the claning of wrists position with energy bolts around the bands,but the figuine shown had to many faults to it,so I guess you made the right chice.

Gremlin said...

Excellent update. Loving Thunderbird and Forge, can't wait to get them.

I echo the sentiments that I would rather have a 20 piece extension than a subset. Other than a re-do subset there isn't anything I would buy.
Looking forward to when you confirm Gamora, Wolfsbane, Darkstar, Count Nefaria, Meggan, Exodus and Deathbird.

John said...

I'm going to 2nd the Gamora statement. In her modern costume please. HUGE want for me. ;)

Forge and Thunderbird are two characters I care absolutely NOTHING for. Regardless, both look great, and I'll be buying both of them. Continue making new characters and I'll buy every one.

...and I think its assumed that if we have a subset, that means we're also getting an extension. It would be very odd to have a subset without the main line as well.

SinisterVenom said...

Ahh what a day! First MVC3 is released in the EU (It is AMAZING by the way!!! Highly recommend you guys buy it) and now there is another update.
Both of the figures look very nice, I like Forge better than Thunderbird but still nice all the same.
I must say I think we really did get the better Captain Mar-Vell fig, I wanted the above version too but after seeing this, I think I'm happy with what we have now.
SV

AVENGERS -87 said...

I hope a next extension and not a subset

mgf said...

Now we now have two native American characters can we look forward to Red Wolf & Lobo as some point?

Word verication:

"Keemo Sahbee".

Ramshackle said...

Cool update and yeah a 20 figure extension would be great. Forge and Thunderbird both look good.

I Hope Danielle Moonstar (Mirage) gets the New Mutant slot.

jimbob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jimbob said...

Forge and Thunderbird looks great.


20 subset variants.

1)Mystique-white costume
2)Beast-90s costume
3)Rouge-90s
4)Storm-90s
5)Sabertooth-90s
6)Captain America-Muscular
7)Iron-Man-Bigger
8)Cable-Bigger
9)Quicksilver-Green costume
10)Doctor Doom-Bigger
11)Namor-Green trunks
12)Nick Fury-Samuel L Jackson look.
13)Punisher-First look
14)Lizard-Bigger
15)Captain Britain-Muscular
16)Doctor Octopus-classic costume
17)Drax-classic look
18)Thor-Modern costume
19)Super Soldier-Bucky
20)Angel-Archangel

Special
1)Hulk
2)Abomination

AVENGERS -87 said...

I prefer a extension with characters not confirmed and not a subset of variants

SinisterVenom said...

Yeah I would rather hear about a new extension before we hear about subsets. 20 more new figs to carry us into issue 200 would be great!
SV

SinisterVenom said...

Is it me or does Forge look like Freddie Mercury?
SV

LAWay said...

I'd prefer a subset myself. Just to give something refreshing into the collection to mix it up for abit.

Yeh, Marvel looks like a chippendale. The other pose also looked unnatural, too rigid in the torso, but it looks ok overall. Thunderbird looks cool, except the girlie hair. Forge looks great.

But damn is he stacked. He is going to put most of the marvel heroes to shame with his physique. Woulda thought all that type inventing stuff would pile on the muscles?

Thats what Sue asks Reed anyway.

ZING!

Nice to have a weekly update btw, very much appreciated. Would love to see more sculpts that didnt make the cut.

LarryS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LarryS said...

When can we expect confirmation of the extension...?

Rich - perhaps you could persuade the powers at Eaglemoss to approve a 40 issue extension, to help avoid annual agony about whether our collection is to be terminated!

ted sallis said...

Just caught up with the last update i noticed Rob and Bob listing their favourite "clunky" character names. Jack Hart etc.
My fav name ever is Jack Russell, we had a local builder in the town for donkeys years called J Russell a perfectly normal name in these parts, but to make him the lead character in a title called werewolve by night was sheer genius:)
Much like a maiden aunts bungalow this collection is wall to wall pussy. Hellcat,Tigra, Zabu..er Shadowcat?
Lets see some doggy action, Werewolve by night, Lockjaw,Red Wolf......Fenris??

KIRLIANEYES said...

THUNDERBIRD
Looks awesome. His unique style will bring more variety into the collection. Also, a great example
of how you don't need a lot of story to get in the CMFC. I'm all for the inclusion of Marvel characters that make great figurines purely from a cosmetic
point of view, because their design is cool, regardless of
number of appearances.

FORGE
A good figurine. Personally I'm not interested in Marvel characters whose design is mostly based on weaponry. I find that they make boring figurines.
I prefer more imaginative, outlandish features. Just a personal taste.

CAPTAIN MARVEL
I'm glad that the wristband-clapping sculpt has been rejected. It really wasn't great. However, I still feel that EM could have come up with a more creative, more
interesting pose for this iconic character. The pose where he is punching the air and one of his legs is bent at the knee while he takes off, for example.

EXTENSION & SUBSET
Of course I want another extension. And then another
and another. But why can't we also have subsets? DC fans are getting them. Marvel fans are certainly
not B-Class collectors. I start to feel outraged that we are not getting Marvel subsets. There are so many awesome characters left to cover, and the pace of the main CMFC alone is becoming too slow.
EM, give us Marvel subsets please! There is enough demand.

Robert said...

Maybe this is just me thinking outside the box, but after watching the rather wonderful Thor trailer, I got to thinking... in America, you can go off for a weekend to a ranch and learn to be a cowboy, or you can go and folk will teach you to play the Japanese taiko drum (did that myself in Strathaven, Scotland, and it was great), you can go off and dress up like a solider and paintball your heart away, you can even be led by a marine through a maze filled with aliens (also good fun), in fact you can go away and do most anything.

You probably see where I'm heading with this now. So, why do they not have superhero training camps? Think about it: if someone said to you go off to dress up as a superhero and learn to fight with a Mjolnir replica or toss a shield or fire arrows or even throw magic spells like Doc Strange. You would go through a few days of basic skills then go through some sort of test zone. In the case of, say, Thor you could be attacked by an actor dressed as Loki and maybe a few other folk dressed as trolls. You could then finish off with some sort of projection screen test, where you fire off bolts like a computer game. As for the good Doctor, you might have to do all of that in front of a screen. You'd have basic spells like the crimson bands of Cytorrak, but also a few other more specific, and the screen would react to your spells. This could be voice activated or controlled by a guy watching you.

AVENGERS -87 said...

20 names for the next extension : 1. MOONSTONE 2. GREY GARGOYLE 3. SWORDSMAN 4. STINGRAY 5. LIVING LASER 6. LONGSHOT 7. WOLFSBANE 8. MIRAGE 9. SILVER SAMURAI 10. DEATHBIRD 11. MAXIMUS 12. TRAPSTER 13. HAMMERHEAD 14. JACKAL 15. SHAMAN 16. WICCAN 17. OWL 18. GAMORRA 19 VANCE ASTRO 20. FIRELORD

LAWay said...

Ignoring Robert's mid-life crisis idea...

Thats what I am saying EM. The Marvel collection is older, more established, but doesnt get rewarded. Why must subsets be an after-thought...an ultimatum? Why must we have either one or the other...why can't Marvel collectors who have paved way for the DC collection to happen...why cant we get a subset now! Marvel may not have a Blackest Night event right now, but they have a wealth of character history and redesigns, while DC have more or less remained untouched in their designs.

SUBSET IDEAS
I went from 1-30 the last time I posted, so I'll add some more names to the list.

31 - Deadpool - Ultimate Deadpool
32 - Yellow Jacket - Giant Man
33 - Cable - a decent yellow & blue Cable
34 - Carnage - Spider Carnage
35 - Havok - Classic Costume
36 - Ms Marvel - Original Costume
37 - Baron Zemo - Citizen V
38 - X23 - Tanned Feral Costume
39 - Chameleon - Purple costume
40 - Sunfire - AoA costume

John said...

I've put a lot of thought into this, and I think I've put together a list of every variant sculpt I'd like to see. So here's my Redo List:



And there you have it! A comprehensive list of every alternate character I'd like to see. ;)

ted sallis said...

John made me laff into ma cornflakes.
Robert, with Kinect Tech, these days a game could easily be made along the lines you have described ( without having to do anything as scary as leaving the house )
Had a session with SV on the mighty MvC3 , titanic stuff with honours even, naw bad fer an auld yin. ( me being the auld yin ;) )
but leigh where for art ...ee ?

navaho said...

I would love a Planet Hulk subset

Robert said...

Laughed when I saw Leigh's comment. Probably spot on about me having mid-life crisis! Funny stuff.

Ted, the last computer game I played was probably Chuckie Egg, Manic Miner or Jetpac. (Hands up if you remember those oldies!) So I have no idea of the possibilities of modern technology. Just seemed a logical progression, that's all.

Re-reading classic early 1970s Thors, as I think modern comics are rubbish. Came across a letter from a guy saying comics from the 1960s were much better and that the 1970s were mince. That is no doubt profound in some way but I don't know why.

ted sallis said...

Oh, i remember them Robert, unlike my stop start interest in comics, i've pretty much always had a games machine since the early 80's.
I've just twigged that Capcom expect me to pay money to download Shuma gorath,After paying £40.00 for the game!!!cheeky bar stewards.
Your team still getting "hooped" Robert?

Robert said...

Yeh, Ted. Walter Smith has performed more miracles than JC, but there is a limit to even his powers. Unfortunately.

Been a crap weekend all round. Bike deemed unsafe and is now off the road while major and expensive work gets done to it; twigged a muscle at the back of my knee which is making movement painful; and now this. Oh well, at least one side of my family will be happy...

Thank goodness there is a mart next week. Can see some major splurging coming up...

jbmb2000 said...

Hey,

The new sneak peaks are looking good and I think the right choise was made by ditching the Captain Marvel shown.

Quick question. Anyone have any idea how long it takes Eaglemoss to responde to their emails? Still waiting for a response from the Marvel email 3 weeks later and had a response from the DC one after 2 weeks waiting. Not all my questions were answered so I responded looking with the info they needed from the response to 1 question and reasked the others - a week later and no response despite them telling me they were sorry for the delay in getting back to me!!!

avenger guy said...

What is the next special and when does it come out.I think it is odin but i'm not sure. Can someone tell me.

jimbob said...

There has been no release date for the next special yet or who it will be.

But I guess it would be Odin,since the Thor film is out in April.

LAWay said...

You misguided fool John. How can you be entirely happy with every character, costume choice, sculpt & pose?

Anyway, Ted, I looked at buying MvC3 the other day, looking at which shops still have the freebies. GAME still had the t-shirts, only in large though. A fella in trim, lean shape like makeself couldn't fill out such a shirt which was clearly aimed at typical comic/game fanboys who are clearly overweight and have nothing better to do than sit and read or play games.

I do jest.

But yeh...£40? I will wait where it will eventually drop down in price in a months time. What with the DLC of extra characters and costumes, Frank West & Doc Ock already rumoured and the costumes announced for Iron Man (iron patriot), Captain America (modern steve rogers) to name a couple, I am waiting.

I made a mistake buying SF4 early. Hardly played it, then it dropped £20...then I still hardly played it, and they announced SSF4. Not this time, I wont be dupped.

ted sallis said...

Anyone with channel 4 +1, Alan Carr has Samuel LJackson , he tells a cool story of the day he discovered his image in the ultimates. Starts Midnight
Leigh, don't blame you wait and get the gold editions that always come out 6 months later rather than buying all the DLC in dribs and drabs. You end up paying aboot 50 quid to "complete" the roster with characters that should have been included in the bloody thing to begin with Grrrrrrrrr.

Bagman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bagman said...

I must have missed JOHNS post where he said he WAS happy with every character,costume choice,sculpt and pose. All I thought he did was post his Redo list -- such as it was -- and his choices should be respected.

BobDiamond said...

Leigh's Game....If (big IF) we had an Alternative Costume/Look Sub-Set, this would be my choice (616 universe only):

Manwolf (Stargod)
Winter Soldier (GA Bucky)
Cap America (GA Cap)
Green Goblin (Iron Patriot)
Mistique (white dress)
Beast ('ape')
Havok (Neal Adam's design)
Iron Man (70s classic)
Cap Britain (original design)
Yellowjacket (original Giant-Man)
Thor (new design)
Hulk (Mr Fixit)
Wolverine (Brown/ Tan costume)
Storm (original design)
Angel (Archangel)
Drax (Starlin design)
Punisher (original design)
Jean Grey (green mini)
Luke Cage (Modern)
Cable (90s 'bulky look)

BD (see you all in about 5 days!)

ted sallis said...

"Once in the saddle i used to go dashing, once in the saddle i used to go gay"
Only one corner of the MU has been sadly ignored til now, So my pick for any theme pack, multi pack or subset would be for the Mighty Marvel Westerns to get a long overdue lookin. Kid Colt,Ghost Rider, Rawhide Kid . Heck Rich, you could use those gallons of spare flourescant paint from R Man on the GR fig...coooooooool!!!

Robert said...

Not keen on too many variants but I would be unable to resist an Iron Man subset: original grey, classic red-and-gold, Silver Centurion, stealth and, um, that would be all, I think, as we already have extremis.

Failing that either an Infinity Watch subset or, if I can dream about non-616 Marvel universes, Dreadstar. That would be just wonderful.

KIRLIANEYES said...

WHY SUBSETS WILL BENEFIT ALL TYPES OF COLLECTORS

I leave the marketing analysis to EM's boardroom. As a collector and a member of this blog, I feel my real power is in asking for WHAT I WANT insistently and relentlessly, driven by passion for the Marvel Universe, until my voice is heard. It is important we keep asking: I WANT MARVEL SUBSETS dedicated to ANY team or saga.

I will buy them. My personal reason is that I am frustrated with the slow pace of the CMFC and its frustrating logic, whereby if I get Firelord today, I will have to wait 3 years to see another Herald of Galactus.
It's a painful, and slightly cruel and unnecessary wait!

Subsets will not damage the main CMFC collector in any way. On the contrary, subsets will benefit all types of collectors. For those who are happy to wait years to complete a team, they are not obliged to buy the subset. But they can delight in the knowledge that the team will be completed and they can buy the figurines at a later stage. Yes, later, whenever they can. As they are ready to wait for years
for a character to appear, it does not make any difference if they wait 3 years to buy a character that's been made in a subset.

And this would be a very democratic process, as other types of 'impatient' collectors can get their hands on complete teams at a faster pace. The main benefit for all of us is a better guarantee that teams WILL BE completed.

What we have now is a painful
uncertainty ... "will the team be completed before the economy changes and EM can no longer produce these £5.99 figurines?". This would be terrible.

Let's have EM make them now that they can. There's plenty of collectors ready to buy subsets. And the main CMFC has hundreds of characters to cover - even if you leave out a few teams.

Robert said...

If posts on here are anything to go by, K-Eyes, then there's certainly support for sub-sets. The only problem is the volume of suggestions. Even the idea of the original X-Men which Rich mentioned has not been over-whelmingly popular on here. It's all very well saying subsets would sell, it's another thing entirely to identify the content of a subset that would sell well and that's the dilemma for Eaglemoss.

jimbob said...

There is a dilemma on what subset to start on.

I'm all for re-dos subset.It will include some big names in the collection again.

LAWay said...

Interesting point there K-Eyes.

EM could re-release previous teams in subsets for those who havent picked them up, or release the team early, and then scatter them throughout the regular collection for the subscribers.

That way those who want the team buy the subset early. Subscribers merely wait for when their single figurine comes through the door.

The main issue would be sorting out subscribers not receiving these automatically like specials so that they dont receive doublers. Unless Subscribers received these subset figurines that appear in the regular collection for free.

We are in a great, yet terrible position with the CMFC. So many great alternative universe and variants, but that means there are going to be so many different opinions about which one would be deserving of the first subset.

But I think if everyone was supportive of the idea, no matter what subset gets produced, it will benefit us all for future subsets.

Personally, I would love seeing 616 universe costume variants. But then I would love to see alternate universe and reality variants...and the way the collection is now, Ultimates will never get a look in, but the comics are so popular with lots of great designs (although some are plain). Its a tough choice alright.

KIRLIANEYES said...

Let's not overcomplicate it. Subsets can cover teams and sagas. The characters don't need to also appear in the main CMFC. Subsets will simply guarantee that whole teams can be covered. The main CMFC collector can buy the subsets in future whenever they want. Surely if they're happy to wait 4 years to get the full group of Heralds of Galactus, what difference does it make if the Heralds appear in a subset? They're not obliged to buy them now. They can keep on waiting, and then buy them after 4 years! At least subsets can guarantee that teams are completed.

KIRLIANEYES said...

And c'mon, enough with this nonsense about how difficult it is for EM to choose which subset to start with. It's not like there is ever a guarantee that people will like all characters, not even in the main CMFC. I mean, c'mon!
If EM have did not worry about the commercial success of Silver Sable, Batroc or Titania, I don't see why they should worry more about a subset including the awesome Heralds of Galactus, for example. They are guaranteed to make awesome figurines. With no more or less commercial risk than freakin' Silver Sable and Batroc. Every character will find an audience, as always.

John said...

I still say they should ignore the ideas of the DC Subset, and do a twist on it. 8 is fairly high. Just do 3-5 covering a certain team or theme. Release them as a special grouping, once a month, instead of Specials.

Jan: Fandral
Feb: Volstagg
March: Hogun
April:
May: MODOK
June:
July: Madame Web
Aug:
Sept: Hulking and Wiccan
Oct:
Nov: Blastaar
Dec:

Or for a bigger set:
Jan: Firelord
Feb: Air-Walker
March: Nova
April: Terrax
May: Stardust
June:
July: Lockjaw
Aug:
Sept: Rocket Raccoon and Groot
Oct:
Nov: Gorilla Man
Dec:

We get more figures but it doesn't cut into the budget too much, like the DC one does. Choose the categories smart, and we don't technically lose out on Specials, as Volstagg or Terrax (for example) would be Specials anyway.

I just think this is a more reasonable way to look at it than to launch a full separate line. Even if you wanted to use... shudder... variants, this would be easier on the wallet and less of an investment on EM part (i.e. if it doesn't sell well, they're only 4 characters in versus 8.)

Robert said...

K-Eyes, I see that anyone who disagrees with you is talking "nonsense". Your argument makes sense up to a point, although you seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that a subset is a MUCH GREATER financial risk than an individual character, hence it cannot be considered as the same thing.

More to the point, look back over the last 50-odd posts and list the suggestions. We can't even get a consensus about whether to stick to the 616 universe (whether characters not yet in the collection or variants/ redoes) or whether to do alternate futures/ realities.

I thought John's suggestion of staggering extra releases was sensible. One of the factors that will put some collectors off is cost. Say a five-character subset sells for around £25 for argument's sake. That would just be too much in one week for some people and we have to recognise and respect that. Spreading that over several months is a great suggestion by John. I also agree with his idea to keep the subset between three and five characters. I think this is one of those times when we have to be willing to compromise. Jumping up and down and yelling you want something isn't really going to work.

pirate adam said...

i happen to agree with Kirly about the Heralds, they have been tragically overlooked and yet we have had some real TURDS turn up.

i know people want some of the lesser known characters and i have enjoyed reading about some of the characters that i knew little about but 1 Herald in 180 figs bearing in mind they played a big part in the fantastic Annihilation saga is just a kick in the face to Herald fans

i would buy a Herald subset in a heart beat and i bet loads of others would too

jimbob said...

Teams would be a good idea,but I'm not sure if EM would go for it.

Rich ignored commenting on team subset on the blog,he just mentioned sagas.Which is no good because we haven't got a good one to start with.

I would like team subset,it would be nice to get them faster.

Robert said...

Okay, we may be on to something more tangible now.

A Heralds subset (for argument's sake the following five: Air Walker, Firelord, Terrax, Nova and Stardust) has the support of John, Adam, K-Eyes and myself. Anyone else?

KIRLIANEYES said...

My 'nonsense' comment was not referred to anyone personally.
I just think that all Marvel characters have a large enough audience, and even the forum has highlighted that there is demand for a better coverage of teams.
Even in the main CMFC there is no guarantee that a character will be liked by all. I've seen at least 10 characters in each extension which I would not normally want, but I bought them coz they made awesome figurines and, above all, coz I like the CMFC to cover absolutely all Marvel characters. A subset can run for 5 to 10 issues, so it does not carry more commercial risk than the 5 to 10 so-called 'unpopular inclusions' that we saw in the main CMFC. Subsets should be dedicated to covering teams, not as multi-packs but as a limited series of single characters until the team gets the coverage it deserves. Provided the figurines look awesome, they will find an audience. When DC came up with the Blackest Night subset, they did not ask me if I had the money. I don't HAVE to buy them. But I do coz I want. If I did not have the money, I will wait until I have it - but I would delight in the knowledge that the Blackest Night figurines exist for me to buy. Personally I don't like it when a team member appears in the main CMFC and then I have to wait 4 years to see the next member. I will ask over and over again, as much as I like, unless freedom of speech becomes forbidden in this country. EM please do subsets dedicated to teams. Start with the Heralds of Galactus.

LAWay said...

Dont care for Heralds.

Like I said, we will never be happy about everything because we have so many choices.

Staggering the subset is how I thought DC is doing it. Although once a month is fine enough. I dont expect a 4 or 5 figurine boxset. It is too risky of an investment for sure.

Although, I am not entirely sold on the 'teams' subset idea. Why have the subsets if they will eventually come into the collection? Its like admitting you can't/dont want to wait for them to appear, you want it now so you can finally leave.

At least with variants, alternate realities, storylines etc, these characters interpretations will NEVER appear in the current collection the way things are, while if we are just talking about completing teams, these figurines will probably be made eventually anyway.

Dont get me wrong, I would love a Young Avengers complete team. But a subset? Yes, I admit I would love to have regular monthly updates knowing I am getting a Young Avenger. I wouldnt want it restricted to a 4 or 5 figurine boxset thats A) expensive for a single purchase and B) wouldnt complete the team anyway. That being said, while I would support the subset, these characters will just turn up...or should turn up in the main collection anyway, and if a subset was confirmed, I would find creating a subset for an existing team a missed opportunity.

I mean, we have so many uncompleted teams already. There is a reason why we havent seen Heralds of Galactus or GotG. The characters are not high priority. It would be a huge risk. If they are not good enough to make it in the single collection, why group them together? Why complete these teams when we havent even completed Avengers, Thunderbolts etc?

A variant subset would at least attract buyers who dont collect the CMFC, as they would be characters/storylines that they recognize. A small collection that is affordable to new fans, and introduce them to the CMFC. Just like Blackest Night is the biggest thing DC has done, with fans wanting merchandise from that storyline and the characters involved. They may not care about the rest of the DC universe and just want that set.

Thats how the Marvel one should be approached, because lets face it, most people who see a Heralds of Galactus subset in the shops wouldnt think of it being any different from the CMFC anyway.

ted sallis said...

So there you have it Rich, it's really quite simple all we want is an original X-Men set containing Beast in his blue and yellow costume, his red and blue (Neal Adams )look, his blue furry (Avengers)look, his movie (the guy from Frasier) look.
Wolverine in his brown and tan,AoA, kinky maid outfits,,blah,blah blah clear as mud, best of luck with that Rich.
A western theme is the only way to go, everyone loves cowboys :)

ted sallis said...

P.S
Apart from the Apache

Robert said...

Y apuesto bandidos como yo, la gran Calvera!

Bagman said...

Robert, put me down for one HERALDS subset.

Robert said...

Okay, that's five 'ayes': Bagman F.F.F., John, Adam, K-Eyes and I; with one 'nay from Leigh.

P.S. Have you remembered who Calvera is yet, Ted?

KIRLIANEYES said...

LAWay, I hope you don't misread me. I like and buy all characters. I will buy anything in the main CMFC and anything in subsets. I'm not asking for a specific team subset that I like so I can get it and then stop collecting. I want team subsets, to ensure teams will be covered. I'm just saying that EM must start to think outside the box to ensure that teams can get covered more systematically. You don't HAVE to buy the whole team or any single team member if you don't like them, just like no-one was obliged to buy Nomad, Silver Sable or Batroc if they felt that they were duds. I bought them, though! I am sure that each team will find its audience, and a large one at that.

KIRLIANEYES said...

Another reason why some teams are yet to appear in the main CMFC is precisely 'coz the attractiveness is all in the fact they are a team. They look awesome together and less attractive as singles. Include one team representative in the CMFC, without any promise you'll see his companions, and the character instantly feels less interesting. Put them together in a subset that delivers one every 14 days, and you have a sure winner. The team logic increases individual character attraction to the Nth power.

LAWay said...

No denying completing a team is an attractive aspect and would be awesome.

But why waste a subset on characters that will appear in the collection anyway? Sure its great getting them quicker, but its not exactly going to change the CMFC collection. Its doing the same thing, it wont get new fans and it wont introduce anything essentially new.

How many are in the Heralds? Is it substantial enough to really be worth doing it? I mean, I dont mind getting the characters, much like I would love seeing the Young Avengers...but as a subset? I dont see the point of than being impatient.

Blackest Night was something completely DIFFERENT from the DC collection. Thats why it was special enough to be a subset. Comicvine says the Heralds appear in 67 issues. But that isnt the point. The point is the subset should be DIFFERENT. For example, Marvel is ready to do its 'Fear itself' event, where it seems many characters will be issued with Thor type hammers and powers. If it actually turns out a good story with different character designs, it would be like the Blackest Night.

Or easier, look back at the history of marvel events and characters. AoA, House of M, Secret Wars, Ultimates...DIFFERENT stories and eras of marvel. Otherwise, what is the real point of subsets for EM if its just to use up characters quicker from their main collection which, if anything, prolongs the collection and their business.

KIRLIANEYES said...

An uncertain economy
Because, as a collector, I dread to think that the economy may change in such a way that EM will no longer be able to produce these wonderful £5.99 Marvel figurines.

Strike while the iron is hot
Today EM can rely on the strength of the main CMFC and a strong fan base. This may change. Now is the time for EM to up their game and add a new product line: subsets.

Without subsets, we are left with no real guarantee that we will ever see a decent number of team representatives in the collection, or coverage of major sagas, alternate timelines and so on.

Room for the weird & wonderful
The Blackest Night subset proves that there are fans who want more figurines and at a faster pace, including outlandish characters that would never make it in the main DCFC, such as Larfreeze. Why miss such an amazing opportunity? The success of Blackest Night is not only in the fact that it ties in with the comic saga, but also in the fact that it covers plenty more weird & wonderful characters than a mainstream collection would allow.

The sci-fi factor
Because of the sci-fi appeal of the DC subset, I feel that Heralds of Galactus, Guardians of the Galaxy or even an Alien Species subset would find lots of fans and buyers.

Bagman said...

Comicvine says that the HERALDS OF GALACTUS have had 67 appearances --
as Leigh posted -- thought i'd break it down,
FALLEN ONE 15
SILVER SURFER 971
AIRWALKER 51
FIRELORD 126
DESTROYER 77
TERRAX 114
FRANKIE RAYE 144
MORG 37
RED SHIFT 15,
JOHNNY STORM 2,976
STARDUST 25

Grand total of 4,407 appearances between them, don't know who did the counting at comicvine!
Just thought i'd share some useless information with you guys.

John said...

"But why waste a subset on characters that will appear in the collection anyway?"

Because there are so many characters to cover...


"Its like admitting you can't/dont want to wait for them to appear, you want it now so you can finally leave."

I have every character and will continue to get every character until the collection ends (minus, of course, if variants are made.) And again, its not even a question of not wanting to wait, as it is guaranteeing them a spot before the collection is over.


I started reading Annihilation again, and I think one of my favorite aspects of the whole thing was seeing the Heralds interacting with each other, as a group. (I was even showing people pictures of Red Shift and Firelord in the breakroom...)

So if we want to talk about appeal to new collectors, there it is. A guarantee that they will have a full grouping rather than a random assortment of characters (which actually I'd imagine turn some people away from the CMFC.) I'm just saying, if I were a new collector, afraid of the investment of tracking down all the old figurines, I wouldn't want Speedball unless I knew Night Thrasher was on his way.

And I still say small subsets in place of Specials is the way to go, so its easy on the budget, and feels like a part of the main line but just has a "special" grouping. Like the monthly chart I posted above; to cover some of these most wanted teams like the Heralds, Wrecking Crew or Warriors Three. Choose teams that include Specials so the main collectors don't feel that they're losing a Special space (Volstagg, Terrax, Hulkling) and its win-win-win for everybody... except apparently LAWay.

Once again, this IS just a way to get characters out faster, but I think puts an interesting spin on the collection as collectors will know a group of related characters is coming out together once a year, which won't hurt the budget as much, and guarantees them before the collection finishes.

Thoughts?

Gremlin said...

I would prefer a generic character subset. I think it would sell rather well because people would probably pick up multiple figures to create a display.

1) AIM Agent
2) Hydra Agent
3) Kree Soldier
4) Hand Assassin
5) Hellfire Club Drone
6) SHIELD Agent
7) Skrull Soldier
8) Mindless One

and if an extension was announced for it you could do highlight other MU teams and organisations and do a rep from them....

9) Maria Hill for SHIELD
10) Von Struker for Hydra
11) Warlock for the Phalanx/Technarchy
12) Oracle for the Imperial Guard
13) Princess Python for Serpent Society
14) Vertigo for Savage Land Mutates
15) Firelord for Heralds of Galactus
16) Maverick for Weapon X

Robert said...

Ha ha! No longer am I a lone voice in the wilderness, screaming uselessly at a proverbially indifferent universe that generic subsets should be considered! Now there are TWO!

So, Gremlin, what do you want to play first? I have a deck of cards and a pair of tennis rackets. I don't mind admittin', it's been difficult to play these on my own.

Incidentally, I was wondering if the content of subsets may rest a little on the magazines. Important and worthwhile though they are, most of the heralds don't have a huge number of appearances. And many of their personalities boil down to being little more than bloodhounds with the power cosmic thrown in. We know very little about their life before heraldry duties arrived - even Terrax, who we did get to see in a little detail pre-transformation - was just a typical cruel despot to start off with.

Continuing this line of thinking - that the magazine content may be a factor - that means that the likes of the rest of the Wrecking Crew and the Warriors Three would fit in well, as they are seldom separated and you could easily tell their combined story in a single magazine. Separate ones for them would unavoidably repeat a lot of information. And, by extension, characters like, say, Blastarr, are less likely to be in a subset as he has a decent history to record.

ted sallis said...

You were never alone Robert ,i think i was a booster for the old generic figs a while back, AIM,Hydra, Mindless ones??... am guessing they were Mole Man's wee munchkins?...or was that Tyrannus?
Anywho Gremlins idea is fantastic and should be implemented immediatly, if not sooner.Princess Python to represent the Serpent Squad, now there's a thought :)

Robert said...

Sorry, Ted. Memory failure again. Actually, I often feel I plow a lone furrow on here - the Infinity Watch subset, the many armours of Shellhead subset, ach, the list is endless.

As for the Mindless Ones, weren't they the guys that Dormammu sent against Doc Strange? Large, lumbering brutes - think they used to fire bolts or something from their faces. Or did I make that up?

Don't think I am going to make the mart on Saturday. Bugger.

Robert said...

Guess who reads too many US comicbooks?

Of course, I meant "plough", not "plow".

ted sallis said...

Aaaah, yer right Robert ,I liked the wee mole man minions,they should be recognised in any list of generics, Did Tyrannus have a similar race of slaves or is my failing memory just filling in the blanks with nonsense?

Robert said...

No, I think you're right that Moley's and Tyrannus's slaves were the same, Ted. I seem to recall one story where they were different breeds to distinguish them in battle, but generally I believe they looked alike. I agree that a generics pack with one of the creatures would be quite cool. They have made many appearances. In fact, I think I'll go and see what the correct name for them is. Back in a mo.

Robert said...

Moloids.

We should know that! God, that's actually embarrassing. I think I will have to return my No-Prizes.

Robert said...

Marvel Wiki on Moloids.

Powers - NONE
Abilities - NONE
Average Strength Level - WEAK

Not exactly scarey. And a bit harsh. Moloids are pretty resilent, they never give up, they're obedient and they work well together even in massive groups. On their own they are insignificant, yet that's not the way they operate. They swamp opponents, like a mob of skinny teenagers would eventually overwhelm even Mike Tyson at his peak.

And it's always fun to see the Hulk toss them around like rag dolls. :)

John said...

"Princess Python to represent the Serpent Squad, now there's a thought."

Every time the Serpent Society comes up, people suggest Constrictor and Princess Python. Constrictor denied membership and Python quit as fast as she started... if I read their origins accurately.


"I would prefer a generic character subset. I think it would sell rather well because people would probably pick up multiple figures to create a display."

I'll have to disagree with Grem and Robert here...
Although I DEFINITELY want to see generics in the collection, their biggest selling point for EM is going to be people that buy multiple. But again, going back to budget, if they are released so close together people will be more hesitant to buy up a small army. An additional 4 or 5 figurines AT ONCE on top of what we already get might not be so bad an idea once a year, but month after month? It'll hurt its main selling point.

Robert said...

Excellent point, John, about multiples of generic characters. I'd want several Hydra goons and to get them I'd need to buy several multiple packs. Which would be very expensive and basically wouldn't happen.

Okay, a wiser man than me has pointed out a flaw in my thinking so I'm now hoping we get a Hydra agent as a regular fig. Thanks, John.

Robert said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
KIRLIANEYES said...

Very happy that more and more people support the idea of subsets and the benefits they'd bring.

Subsets and their magazines
I think the beauty of thematic and team-based subsets is that the magazine does not have to focus so much on individual characters, but it can also cover the interesting concepts and mythology behind them. For example, the magazines for a Heralds of Galactus subset can cover cosmic theories of the MU, tell us more about galaxies and planets that the heralds come from, not to mention there's so much left to cover about Galactus.

Generic Characters subsets
This can be an interesting subset. Subsets can be designed as Marvel Universe Files covering all things Marvel, from alien species to alternate realities to secret organisations. So, there could be a Secret Organisations subset dedicated to studying Hydra, Shield, Hand, AIM and so on.
It'd be awesome!

The Variants project
LAWay, fear not! And please support the campaign for subsets. Some of them could definitely be designed as a study on Alternate Timelines or on Marvel Costume Design, so they could include the variants you're so keen to have.

jimbob said...

Hopefully Rich will give us more info on subset on friday.Since it's been a hot topic.

I want to know,

#which subset is EM considering on doing.

#Will it effect the regular line up.

#How many will EM start with.

#How much will it cost.

ted sallis said...

The wee man ( my son) was examaning his fav fig Booster Gold, then he picked up the Grim Reaper fig and noted the marked difference in weight, i explained that most figs are all lead some like Sasquatch are all resin and some like Grim Reaper are a mix of lead and resin.
"is that lesin daddy?"
Yes son ,yes it is

mgf said...

Ah, Ted. Little Fu Choi is such a sweetheart. You are a lucky man. ;-)

As there is no outstanding subset to go for, unlike DC, I think a general subset, cosmics or origins perhaps, would give a broader range of characters to choose from.

I wonder if EM would be happy to launch such a project without a major event to hang it on though.

It's too late for the Thor and Cap movies, but not for The Avengers film. Could that be a possibility? It's about the only chance to get a golden or grey bucket head Iron Man and a real Giant Man.

LAWay said...

How would you feel about generic henchmen appearing in a multipack of 3 or 5, all slightly different sculpts or poses...but the catch, resin.

Would you prefer buying multiples of a lead henchmen, or have a multipack of different looking figurines that are resin?

Bagman - ridiculous. Johnny Storm wasnt a Herald for 4,000+ comic titles. I assume comicvine are only counting issues that they appear as a team, or actually referred to as Heralds. Except the 3 main characters there, Johnny Storm, Silver Surfer and Terrax, every other character has less appearances that the Young Avengers (again, according to comicvine). Even the Iron Spiderman costume had over 100 appearences, although the subset would be good for those characters with 50 and under appearences as otherwsie they wouldnt ever get in the collection. Then arguably, maybe they shouldnt until they have racked up more.

John, I am all for your idea of replacing random specials for those that would help complete a team. I am just saying I would prefer subsets that are variants instead of trying to complete teams faster. If the team doesnt get completed, maybe because the team or characters are not recognised as being popular enough. I dont know. I struggle to understand how not a single Young Avenger has not been made.

KE - I think its a great idea for subsets, generic characters (although will they fill a magazine for each figurine?). Maybe I'm confused here, is the subset released as single issues or as a boxset?

I am all for teams being done. Not just ones mentioned, but thunderbolts old and new etc.

And of course variants. Since the subsets are not going to be numbered or considered part of the CMFC, thats why I would prefer the variants. Having characters not appear in the main collection, but show up in a subset...as in every character in the subset like some have proposed just seems out of line wit what EM have done. I mean, I want Terrax and Firelord, but dont want them in a seperate collection.

Robert said...

Leigh,

Yup, I'd buy a resin Hydra (or AIM) subset.

As for the number of appearances only counting the number of appearances as a herald, that seems a silly conclusion. The Surfer has 971 appearances - but he stopped being a herald in his very first story arc! And does that also mean we if we see a total for, say, Ben Grimm, we only count the appearances as part of the FF? It's clear Comicvine is not making distinctions, just totalling all appearances. Johnny WAS a herlad, albeit very briefly, so if you are being comprehensive you cannot omit him from a list of heralds.

Anyway, you should remember what they say about making ASSumptions, Leigh. Let's hope you are big enough to admit you are wrong and apologise to Bagman for telling him he's being ridiculous.

John said...

"Having characters not appear in the main collection, but show up in a subset (...) just seems out of line wit what EM have done. I mean, I want Terrax and Firelord, but dont want them in a seperate collection."

If its on the same type of base, same scale, same material, etc. I just don't consider a subset as separate from the main collection.

To me, Black Hand would go with the rest of the DC characters, if he came from the main line or a subset. Way of release means nothing to me as they'll all go together anyway. Maybe that's just me.

Like, for example, I got the Prof. X and Lilandra Double Pack, but just because they came together didn't mean I displayed them together. Prof. X is at the head of the X-Men. Lilandra is on the Cosmic shelf with Gladiator.

Or maybe an easier example would be Specials. Galactus wasn't released in the numbering order of the main line, but he's obviously a part of it.


On another note, getting further into Annihilation makes me really want so many of these other cosmic characters. But adding to the Heralds, I just got to the part with Morg's appearance. Although my least wanted Herald, I'd still want him.

And there's something about Red Shift I really like. He's a bit light on the material, so a Heralds subset is the perfect (and maybe only) way to get him in the collection. Plus he's got TWO swords... and you know how EM loves their swords. :)

avenger guy said...

What is mandrills main enimie

Bagman said...

LAWay -- Never said that Johnny Storm had all them appearances as a HERALD,just pointed out how many appearances each character had,taking a bit of artistic license.As a wise man once said
"There are two types of statistics the kind you look up and the kind you make up"
As for being ridiculous, i did say it was USELESS INFORMATION.

Barnabas said...

I'm not fussed if the figures come from the main collection, subsets or even if they were unnumbered. I don't see what the problem is. Does it really matter that the early editions were in a different order in France? NO! LOL
Unless you intend having little tags 'Spider-Man #1 0f #300 in your dispaly cabinets of course. I loved the Abomiation, but couldn't tell you what number special he came as. That's just not important to me. The characters are what's important. It doesn't matter if a character appears in a possible subset that could appear in the main line. You still get the character, just by a different method.
EM have said they would like to maybe do subsets and are loking into it. I'm willing to wait until the market research in in - probably gathered from the Blackest Night one - and take it from there.

Barnabas

KIRLIANEYES said...

Of course the figurines in the subsets would have the same base and same proportions as those in the main CMFC. The same logic as Blackest Night subset and main DCFC. So all characters can go together in the most stupendous display. And of course a subset would be a series of individual characters, each coming out every 14 days. I will celebrate with fireworks in Trafalgar Square the day we start getting subsets!

LAWay said...

Robert - the ridiculous comment I was referring to was stating the likes of johnny storm as a herald with 4000+ comic appearences yet a handful or herald comics. Like you said, comicvine may be wrong with its stats, but I assume it is counting either the heralds as a team, or actually times they have been considered heralds in comics. If it is infact only 67 times, its a very low number. But I still think its silly comparing the amount of appearances of a character overall to single appearances in a team. I'm sorry if I offended, but its still a silly statement.

Sorry to say just like the Thing comparison is silly. Comicvine suggests he has had some 3000+ appearances. We know he is in the fantastic 4, so the only comparison is if he appeared in one issue wearing spidermans outfit, and people wanted that figurine instead of a fantastic 4 version. Like I said, it would be ridiculous.

-reread a newer bagman comment. Sorry man. I saw your 'useless information' comment as like some sort of sarcastic swipe.

good points made about the subsets not really mattering about whether or not they are a continuation of the main collection or not. I dunno why, I would juts find it weird anew character not appearing in the main collection but do in a subset, but like you guys say, like a special, they aint numbered or anything, so i guess it wouldnt really matter.

The main issue would be these characters with low appearences, how would their accompanying magazine be filled out? You could argue the same with costume variants, but as I have ranted before, alot of costumes stay with a character for years and the character develops a history and important stories while in that costume. Cant be said with all costumes, but I can see both sides of the coin.

Hey, you think we are jumping the gun slightly with all this subset arguing? lol

Robert said...

1. "Like you said, comicvine may be wrong with its stats, but I assume it is counting either the heralds as a team, or actually times they have been considered heralds in comics."

Why are you assuming that? If you can give me one good reason, I will bow to your asumption. In the meantime, I will go with common sense. All characters are listed with total appearances. That goes for whether they have been solo acts, occasional/ regular team members or have joined several teams (like Hawkeye, for instance).

2. Fact: Johnny Storm WAS a herald of Galactus and should be on any list of heralds.

Proof: At the end of Fantastic Four #519 (Part 3 of "Fourtitude" for those with the TP), Galactus tranformed Johnny Storm into a herald. The reason he did this is a bit complicated but basically it's so that the Big G can circumvent a cloaking technology that aliens have developed. That started a story arc called "Rising Storm" that ran for four issues. (If you google #'s 520 or 522 and have a look at the cover you'll see exactly what JS looked like.) Johnny loses the power cosmic turning Galactus back into Galen in #523.

Conclusion: Johnny Storm was a herald of Galactus - "Hungering for these planets, Galactus chose as his new, reluctant Herald ... Johnny Storm" (quote from #521) - and even if his tenure was brief and his long-term association is with the FF, he was still a herald. Any list of heralds should include his name.

To conclude, Comicvine makes no distinction between where or with whom someone makes an appearance. Therefore, assumptions and personal prejudices aside, Johnny Storm was a herald of Galactus and his total number of comicbook appearances is 2976.

LAWay said...

I am just assuming because comicvine seems to be pretty accurate with comic appearances and even categorizes costumed appearances and team appearances.

It lists the 'heralds of galactus' as a team or group, whatever, and lists the appearances they have made.

You are right, it doesnt list how many times they have appeared as a herald, and it doesnt deny the fact that johnny was a herald. I never said that.

Just saying the appearances of characters as actual heralds are low. Johnny Storm was only in 4 comic titles. And although myself or comicvine do not have stats to back up the 67 issues it says, no one has stats to say its wrong. Firelord would be a great figurine, and he was a herald, but how many issues was he a herald out of his 120+ appearances? After some googling, after his debut, he was freed as a herald in the next issue.

So while there are heralds, its begs the question of whether or not it would A) make a good subset considering their low appearances as heralds, and B) whether its the best choice for the first subset, again, because of the lack of impact and history of the characters as heralds.

Of course, you guys are the heralds big fans, so i imagine you have the back issues and knowledge of their appearances of heralds and can prove it wrong.

Again, I aint saying I dont want their figurines. I am merely backing up what I said, and questioning their importance as a first choice for a subset...and a subset at all with each character having more history when they are not part of that team.

Gremlin said...

It shouldn't matter how many issues the characters have been a herald for. Many of the characters have had careers outide of being a Herald but when you goup the characters together you can instantly identify that group as Heralds.

1) Firelord
2) Air Walker
3) Nova
4) Morg
5) Stardust
6) Fallen One
7) Red Shift

Special - Terrax

Whilst the concept is a good one I am not sure how commercial it would be. Many of the Heralds are not that fleshed out and they tend to get limited to a few comics.
I personally would buy it as I would love to expand my cosmic shelf more but I have a feeling many others wouldn't.

Robert said...

It's commonplace when describing people to list past accomplishments. Same rule for, say, a footballer or President as a Herald of Galactus. Duration is immaterial.

God, even I'm getting bored with this now.

So, some great news:
1. Stan Goldberg, colourist on FF#1 way back in 1961, has drawn a variant cover for FF#1 (2011). Isn't it great he's still around? Hope Marvel paid him a fortune.
2. The Big Bang Theory has been confirmed for another THREE seasons. Hooray!

John said...

The number of issues as being a Herald doesn't matter. Its the association that matters. People see Johnny Storm, they think of the FF. People see Firelord and they think of him as a Herald. Its like how any member of the New Mutants will be considered New Mutants. Its why Northstar is so associated with Alpha Flight. Actual issues WITH the group don't matter.


"1) Firelord
2) Air Walker
3) Nova
4) Morg
5) Stardust
6) Fallen One
7) Red Shift
Special - Terrax"

Like I've said before, if anyone's not sure what kind of commercial success it would be, simply don't release it as an 8 issue Subset. Think outside the box here. Just because DC had 8 issues doesn't mean Marvel should too.

I'd much rather have smaller subsets more often that cover a more diverse arrangement.

Like I said earlier, people want Heralds, they want the Warriors Three, they want the full Wrecking Crew. Do this once a year at 5 issues, 3 issues and 3 issues. Boom. Done.

Would it be a commercial success to release a character outside of the main line? Well, Ronan was and he did fine. I'd imagine fans of Ronan are fans that would pick up a Firelord, you know?

I'm guessing here, but it seems like a Heralds of Galactus would sell on par with any character in the main line or any Specials. You get the regular buyers, you get a few that skip it because they don't like the theme, and you get others that jump onboard because they come in a grouping. You're going to get that with whatever the theme is, but at least we know this is a group that people want.

And as for casual buyers, you're not going to find many Marvel fans that don't know who the Heralds of Galactus are. If these are sold at specialty shops (comic book stores) where the target audience is obviously familiar with the title, its going to sell. A grouping of X-Static or the Great Lake Avengers might get passed as a team, but not the Heralds.

LAWay said...

Gremlin pretty much said what I have been saying. I dont think the heralds is a bad idea for a subset, i am mainly questioning it being considered for the first subset because the characters either dont have enough background, or as they have appeared only briefly as heralds, what is the point?

We all know of the heralds of galactus, but i didnt realize how little they have actually appeared as heralds, and admittedly i dont know much of the ones with not many comic appearances. Thats why i am questioning it, because no doubt some of these characters will fit into the collection or make a decent subset, but as the first subset?

The heralds motif is a nice tie for these characters to get the subset going, but is the first variant you want a Johnny Storm who only appeared in that costume 2 or 3 times? About 4 characters who have less than 30 comic appearances? I understand these guys probably wouldnt feature in the regular collection and its a nice way to get them out for fans of the heralds, but it just seems such a waste for the first subset, which, if it doesnt do good, kills off this idea.

I know I am arguing with herald of galactus fans here, and I really would love firelord, terrax and destoryer, but the other guys are near non entities. How many people are willing to buy a character with 15 comic appearances? And then if those 3 or 4 characters dont sell because they are unpopular, it ruins it for everyone.

Of course, i havent looked at the blackest night collection which main contain obscure DC characters.

LAWay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert said...

Oh, God, I think I am losing the will to live.

One last time.

Johnny Storm was a Herald, and, if you are being comprehensive, he must be included on any list of Heralds.

HOWEVER no one is asking for him to be included in a Heralds subset. Not John, or Gremlin, or I, or anyone else who's suggested the line-up for a Heralds subset. (Just to be absolutely, positively clear about this, Bagman's list was not - repeat NOT - a list for a subset.)

Leigh, you must be taking the Michael. It's the only reasonable explanation. I can't believe you are being serious with what you are writing any more. Your reasoning - and I use the term carelessly - flits about more than a fly on a summer's day.

John said...

I don't think ANYBODY wants a Johnny Storm as a Herald. That's not an issue. Same with the Destroyer armor. No one associates it with the Heralds and it'd be silly to release it just because it had been one once.


Anyway, again, my proposition is to have a Subset of only 5 characters. So the Fallen One or Red Shift who only have 15 or so appearances don't need to be included.

Firelord
Nova
Air-Walker
Terrax
Stardust

We know Firelord is doing VERY well in the forum polls, Nova's name comes up a LOT, and Terrax is one of the higher requested Specials. Air-Walker is one of the more well known Herlads and I include Stardust because he's the most current Herald (with the Surfer) and would make a baller figurine.

So as you can see, focus on these characters and you absolutely have a high seller. I know I personally really want a Red Shift figurine, but if EM is hesitant at all about a large Subset to a single idea (and they should be) I'd be fine to pass on it if it meant I got the other 5.

jimbob said...

Yes to Heralds.

John said...

46 longshot
42 Wolfsbane
41 Silver Samurai
38 Moonstone
34 Gamora
31 Dani Moonstar / Mirage
31 Deathbird
31 Howard the Duck
31 Shaman
26 Firelord
26 Grey Gargoyle
26 Stingray
25 US Agent

Here's the current forum votes. When last tallied, Firelord was tied for 10th place. Just sayin'...

Robert said...

Thanks for the votes list, John.

Re-reading some Ennis stuff over the last few days for some yuks and maybe we could have an Ennis subset.
1. Gangster fed to piranhas by Frank (Welcome Home, Frank).
2. Secretary with axe in her head from Thor: Vikings.
3. Ma Gnucci AFTER her encounter with the polar bears.
4. Eastern European gangster with intestines draped over tree branches (from The Slavers story arc).
5. And, most controversially, a variant! Thor with broken arms (also from Thor: Vikings, obviously)

And I haven't even touched on the stuff in Preacher. I laugh at your Marvel Zombies, ha!

Robert said...

Oh, and the Gnucci family member Frank threw off the Empire State Building! AFTER he hit the ground, of course!

LAWay said...

Sorry about that. I thought you were proposing a subset of all heralds, which makes more sense as there are only an extra couple of characters.

But had a think and I can see where I was wrong. I was going on about comic appearances, and yet we mention other potential, variant subsets that I endorse like age of apocalypse, ultimates, house of m, their runs are relatively and appearances are relatively short, so yeah, it shouldnt be about that.

I dunno, I guess I just felt I wanted the subsets to be epic and different, but i can see how i feel passionate about that others will be just as passionate as how they think and want subsets to be.

pirate adam said...

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

NOOOOOOO!!!!! the damned Duck is being mentioned on the forum again and the Fowl little turd is 8th on the list

WE SHALL HAVE NO TALK OF THE DUCK ON HERE...please

NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!!
NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!!

come on guys join in....

NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!!
NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!!

PA

KIRLIANEYES said...

The '5-A-Team' approach
It sounds like a good idea. Each team subset could cover up to 5 most representatives characters of the team, then move on to covering other teams, epic sagas, alternate timelines, variants, etc. So this would ensure quick, yet very satisfying explorations of various MU areas and themes as possible. As I said before, the subsets can be marketed as Marvel Universe Files, so collectively they create an enyclopedia of the MU, and the perfect CMFC companion.

5-a-subset can be a really good approach. For example, the 5 main Heralds (Firelord, Nova, Air-Walker, Terrax, Stardust), the 5 main Young Avengers (Patriot, Wiccan, Hulkling, Speed, Stature),
etc.

CGJ said...

Looking at how much effort has gone in to the DC subset, exclusive stands and files etc. A Marvel subset would have to have enough scope to provide a decent run.

Ultimate Universe would seem the most obvious where all of the A list can be revisited and given new sculpts in their Ultimate guises. A 'Sam Jackson' Nick Fury would tie in to the Avengers flick too.

And, 31 votes for the duck? Proves they aren't all locked up

Robert said...

CGJ's comment made me laugh: "And, 31 votes for the duck? Proves they aren't all locked up."

John said...

"Looking at how much effort has gone in to the DC subset, exclusive stands and files etc. A Marvel subset would have to have enough scope to provide a decent run."

But again, that's only if Marvel wants to copy the exact same model. It doesn't have to be big and flashy, it just has to deliver a product that the fans want.

If people want 8-16 Ultimate Universe characters, there's one idea, and would deliver the same model as DC.

If they'd rather use the subsets to get multiple small subsets in that time (the old Guardians of the Galaxy, Marauders, Heralds, etc.) there's another idea.

And of course, there's a lot more in between.

I just say a small subset, once a month, in place of Specials to help our budget, would give a very unique and interesting product.

Jan: Corsair
Feb: Ch'od w/cr'eee
March: Raza Longknife
April: Hebzibah
May: Korvus
June:
July: Skurge the Executioner
Aug:
Sept: Misty Knight & Colleen Wing
Oct:
Nov: MODOK
Dec:

I don't particularly like X-Men related things, but the Starjammers are one of the highest, if not THE highest requested team on the forum. This would sell. And the guarantee of the full line-up will attract more customers.

...and it doesn't have to be done like this. If marketing decides its doable to release every 14 days vs. every month, fine. If they wanted to try releasing Specials at the same time, fine. My point is that there's more than one way to do this. I just feel the way I suggested gives us characters we want, looks good to a casual market, and makes it affordable.

max_0888 said...

I've really enjoy reading all your comments about subsets guys :)

I too, would prefer newer character to re-dos! I like the idea of having some characters like Wrecking crew and Warriors three as a subset. Like the warriors three, three months in a row! That would rock! I'm also completely with the idea of heralds and/or Starjammers!

Oh and I must say, John, big points for mentionning Misty Knight and Colleen Wing :)
Seriously, with Jessica Jones, they are my most wanted characters not yet made! Bring em on EM

jimbob said...

I want the Duck please EM.

jimbob said...

And as for original X-Men yellow costume subset,here is a tester for you guys on how cool they could look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-5Kbsok50&feature=feedf

John said...

Thanks, Max. :)

SinisterVenom said...

Ok guys, here's a little thing to think about. Let's pretend we had an update yesterday.
Rich announces the go ahead for another extension to issue 200. He then announces the first character to be confirmed is...Howard The Duck.

What would be your words right now if you read this?
SV

Robert said...

"The forum should be shut down!"

pirate adam said...

check this out, i cant decide if its real or not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVhCnNwAi68

SinisterVenom said...

Real or not, it still looks interesting...
SV

Robert said...

No way is that genuine.

ted sallis said...

"The first character to be confirmed is...Howard the Duck"
Man, i knew those multiple id's would come in handy. By fair means or fowl, the duck prevailed
Saw that Sif footage a few weeks ago, i don't give it any creedence at all,Not long noo..

John said...

"The first character to be confirmed is...Howard the Duck."

About time. He's got a lot of supporters that will be very happy to hear this. I'm excited for them.

It will also help balance out the costs of things, seeing that he'll be cheaper to produce which is how we get things like Beta Ray Bill as a Regular.

This is also good news for fans of other genres of Marvel, as it increases the possibility of Rawhide Kid, Night Nurse, or Werewolf by Night.

I'm happy because it means that smaller characters are possible on the Marvel side, so this increases my chances of my most wanted character, Rocket Raccoon.

...This also means it will probably be a very safe extension from here on out. Howard's not like... Swordsman, for instance, where there're very few fans, very few haters, but most everybody agrees he's okay. Howard splits people to either love or hate him. (This is why he Should be made, because he actually means something special to his fans.) But with a polarizing confirmation to start, they'll play it safe for the remainder so as not to scare off the traditionalists.

As long as we don't start getting people asking for Beverly, I'm happy. :)

CGJ said...

'The first character confirmed is... Howard the Duck'

First words?

'Oh for ****'s SAKE!!'

He will arrive. As certainly as Death, Taxes and Haemorrhoids. And probably more unpleasant than all three

LarryS said...

Howard? Only about 150 issues too late. Remember he was the first (and for a decade or so, the only) Marvel movie star. Without Howard's trailblazing, there may have been no Marvel Studios ... without Howard, even marvel zombies would scratch their heads to remember a character called Blade ... And without Howard, Robert Downey Jnr would be the bloke who did Chaplin once and then sank into obscurity!

Thor8 said...

Pirate; I checked out that trailer,and just like Robert said,no way is that genuine. As for the Howard The Duck issue; If anyone finds they need him in their collection I can send then a lead Donald Duck figurine to which I've added a polka dot tie and a hat to so they can feel content.

Wow the first three spots in the forum's poll are X-characters. I bet that caught everyone by surprise!

Robert said...

LarryS, you're obviously not serious but just in case anyone thinks you are I'd like to point out that the Howard film wasn't the trailblazer you think it was. Not even close. There was a Captain America serial that played in cinemas during WWII.

And as for the Howard film, it put people off investing real money in anything from Marvel for years. Look at the facts. It was a critical and commercial failure. It grossed $10(TEN) at the US box office; it was nominated for eight Razzies in '87, winning 4 (it was also nominated for the Worst Picture of the Decade in 1990); even the executives of the company were rumoured to get involved in a punch-up about it, and one left soon afterwards; it regularly appears in lists of worst films ever made. It is an industry joke and a career-ending job for most of the folk involved, whether in the film or behind the scenes. (Only Tim Robbins survived the disaster.) The truth is that Howard the film was putting Hollywood off going without a million miles of Marvel for years.

Gremlin said...

That said he is still an iconic Marvel character with tonnes of history and has supported his own series andf many mini-series. He may be a polarising character but I think at this point in the collection he is certainly worth a slot.
I personally don't care for the character but I know some die-hard fans of him out there.

Robert said...

Just noticed I wrote $10 (TEN) dollars when of course I meant $10 (TEN) million dollars.

Whether or not Howard is iconic is up for debate, I was just refuting Larry's points about the Howard film being a positive thing.

ted sallis said...

No problem with HTD he is at least a memorable character with a unique look as opposed to Silver Sable who is a s**t character with a s**t look. My only concern would be the scale at which he was made. He is....a duck! therefor he would approximately come up to a regular figs Knee. Detective chimp looks fab, but... he's a monkey??.. and bigger than a duck ( don't mean ta blind ya'll with science ). if Howard he was done at scale he would be tiny. so i would like him done in some sort of diorama, kinda like the Jonah Hex special, they padded it out with all kinds of background gubbins to justify his special status. "We landed in some kinda nest--reminds of of where i was first laid" HTD #1, reason enuff to include the little feller

LAWay said...

"Next character is Howard the Duck!"

*applauds*

this is exactly what you want people. You want your own specific relatively niche wants from niche teams, and some people like howard the duck. This is what happens when we are left to vote on the bottom of the barrel of marvel characters.

Well EM, you had a good run.

Barnabas said...

Isn't that the nature of the beast though? As we go through the A listers and mostly through the 'B's it comes down to individual wants as practically every character that people were campaigning for have been covered. So we do end up with the collection we deserve. I generally don't vote on polls as I think EM make mostly good choices. I vote for Captain Surreal - who incidently, every thime there is a crisis, runs into a phone box and turns into a cabbage - so every time I post will cite his name as many times as I can in each post until he's done. Then I will move onto his sidekick Ms Bannister. That's why I think the call for re-dos and varients is gaining more of a voice as all major wants are now done. I stil think the collection has legs though, but there will come a point when people will begin to question 'do I really want 'that' character?
Would I buy the Duck? Probably, as he's part of the MU and this excellent collection.
Slightly rambling post, (just wanted to get it done before I start work) but I hope you see my point.

Barnabas

[PS] Bevan said...

Hey guys, survived the Christchurch earthquake. However, my poor figurines didn't make it. years of collecting gone. I'll be trying to re-buy some of the best ones when we get back on our feet. Just wanted to say how great this collection was. bye all from New Zealand. bjdblade1@hotmail.com

Bagman said...

[PS]Bevan, glad to hear you survived champ, looked pretty rough there from what was on the TV here in Oz.

Robert said...

Sad and inspiring at the same time post from [PS] Bevan. There's someone with a genuine reason to be bitter and self-pitying and instead he compliments this collection. Incredible.

Good luck, [PS] Bevan. I hope you and the other residents of Christchurch get back on your feet very soon.

LAWay said...

Glad to hear you are safe and well PS Bevan.

I think Barnabas summed up the collection well.

Howard the Duck IS iconic, but not for the right reasons. Mainly for being a joke character in a movie so awfully bad.

As for 5 limit subsets...what is the point?! You talk about wanting to complete teams, yet limiting to 5 doesnt even complete your own Heralds subset...it doesnt complete the Young Avengers...the idea of limiting a subset goes against the idea of the subset! If the characters are not good enough to fit into their specially dedicated subset and complete the team, the team doesn't need a subset and you may as well wait for the 'big' characters to appear in the main collection.

So many ideas are possible with variants, costumes, redos, alternative realities, storylines...but when you think of what teams havent been represented yet...its a struggle. If you cant think of nearly as many good ideas, then its not the way to go.

ted sallis said...

I don't toss turn while biting down on a fistful of knuckles worrying about this fluff. Just mildly amusing that some folks think the inclusion of the duck will make a mockery of this collection. Yet a squirrel with a Nerf gun won't?.
Picked up some bedtime books from the charity shop, 3 for 40p .
One is called The Xmen school aimed at level 3 solo readers, Leigh if you think we're scraping the barrel now wait til EM reach dirt such as Chamber,Skin? Husk and a host of other generic winners.

Robert said...

I have accepted Howard as an inevitability, just as I've accepted the seventy X-Men per extension. I think the racoon will be much more of a psychological hurdle. Might even be on a par in the Annoying Stakes with Not-Drax...

John said...

46 longshot
42 Wolfsbane
41 silver samurai
38 Moonstone
34 Gamora
32 Howard the Duck
31 Dani Moonstar / Mirage
31 Deathbird
31 shaman
26 Firelord
26 grey gargoyle
26 Stingray
25 US Agent
24 Owl
24 sage
24 Sebastian Shaw
24 selene
24 Vance Astro
23 Baron Mordo
21 Sunspot
21 thundra
21 Warlock
21 Whirlwind
21 White Tiger
21 Wiccan
20 hammerhead
19 Crossbones
18 swordsman
17 Brother Voodoo
17 Dust
17 gargoyle
16 Attuma
16 Hela
16 M (Monet St. Croix)
16 Pixie
15 Corsair
15 Darkhawk
15 Exodus
15 high evolutionary
15 Hyperion
15 Jackal
15 Jigsaw
15 Magma
15 Shatterstar
14 Constrictor
14 Mantis
14 Tarantula
13 Count Nefaria
13 Marrow
13 Meggan
13 Tombstone
12 Cobra / King cobra
12 Mastermind
11 Callisto
11 Phyla Vel
11 Spider-Man 2099
10 Darkstar
10 Maximus The Mad
10 Nova (Frankie Raye)
10 Patriot
10 Sersi
10 The Hood
9 Sister Grimm (Nico Minoru)
9 starlord
8 clea
8 Hepzibah
8 Marrina
8 paladin
8 Phantom Rider
8 Starhawk

This is the Top 70 off the Request Poll on the forum, as it stands right now. Now I'm not crazy about all of them, but I'll tell you what; if they made every character from this list, I would easily buy ALL of them. I love and respect their place, history and contribution to this overall thing we call the Marvel Universe, and I get ecstatic when I think about all of the A, B, C and D characters that come together to make it what it is.

But if the majority of buyers look at this list and say, "meh," then there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. If that's what the majority really wants, I'll be sad, but that's what they want...

So tell me, if the next 70 characters released were these exact characters, +10 curveballs EM throws in, would you say the collection is going in the right direction?

mighty_marvel said...

just to let you know there is a glitch on the forum saying that people are banned. this is not the case and the admins are sorting it out

KIRLIANEYES said...

A lot of characters, a lot of waiting
The above list of 70 characters is great, and I would buy them all. But it would take us almost 3 etensions and 3 years to get through them. Granted, it's a relatively short time. But then I think about all the other characters that deserve a spot, and that I want to see in the collection... and that's when I freak out about how long it will take to get them! I worry that we may not get them - if the economy changes, and the marketplace changes in such way that EM cannot continue to produce them. That's why I feel that now is a great time to have subsets. I say, let's ride the wave of the CMFC success and let's add a line of subsets. I'm not alone when I say there are at least another 200 characters I want to see, especially in teams, secret organisations, alien species, alternate timelines, etc.
I say it's high time for a line of subsets dedicated to these areas.

LAWay said...

i admit, while not a fan of all those 70, or know who some of them are, there are still plenty in that list worth getting, so with the characters scattered, it can still work. Some of the characters I am not a fan of still would look good as figurines anyway.

Is this the right direction? Meh. Its dipping if I am honest. If I am finding characters I dont want here, there will be even more I wont want in future extensions, and for me it gets harder thinking of the ones I actually want.

Personally the quality of names on the list will drop, and thats not a great direction. While alot of marvel characters have great designs, I could do without collecting them all as I dont really care for them. While it would be a shame for the collection to end, I just dont see how this collection goes in a direction that improves on what it has already laid out before unless some fresh new ideas are brought in.

Would a subset help this? Possibly. But it doesnt seem to be a high priority for a while.

KIRLIANEYES said...

It's interesting to see opinions at the other end of the spectrum, like that of LAWay. I'd like to think that the vast majority of collectors, however, feel like me that the CMFC is an absolute wonder for Marvel fans - precisely because it covers all these interesting & wonderful characters that we've all come to love for a million reasons. It's the unique beauty & strength of the CMFC. And thank god for that!

SinisterVenom said...

I couldn't agree with you more KIRLIANEYES.
SV

pirate adam said...

out of the list of 70 there is only 3 definates that i would buy, there are others but that would depend on sculpt and other things

PA

pirate adam said...

no...make that 5 definate

Gremlin said...

Well for me we are getting to an awesome stage of the collection. Many of these characters have never had a proper statue made of them and if you are lucky you might find some action figure of them.
I want this collection to keep going and going because then I would get to have sculpts of Gamora, Count Nefaria, Meggan, Wiccan and Exodus that otherwise wouldn't be made.

If I am being honest if I were picking and choosing then I wouldn't pick up the SpiderMan, Hulk, F4 characters and some of the older villians because they don't appeal to me. But I am a subscriber to the end though.

Robert said...

From the forum poll - thanks, John - counted 33 I'd definitely buy.

Barnabas said...

Interesting list and loads of characters I've only heard of and possibly not seen. But then again I have a huge gap in my knowledge as I dropped out of comics for a number of years, and now, of course it's taking me ages to catch up! It was possibly this collection that helped bring me back into the fold.
That aside.
I just wanted to ask something about reference pictures. If I were to take, for example, the recent Spidey comics. How on earth would EM get a decent sculpt from artwork some of which is just so awful! A lot of it seems unfinished, almost abstract and to keep changing artists constantly, makes it inconsistant, or should that be consistant in its inconsistancy? To me the characters do not look like who they are supposed to be any more.
Now is that age thing? But I like the, maybe classed now as, old school type of art.
So EM Men, how would you achieve this?
Lastly.
As I said, I still think this collection has legs for another one or two extensions yet and I will continue to collect them until the end, or my end whichever comes first!

Barnabas

LAWay said...

How can people have possibly have read a comic with EVERY marvel character?

Thats what I find silly about saying the collection is getting better. Sure, if you read about all those characters as you grew up, but if you read the main marvel titles most of these characters will be unknown.

Robert said...

It's not your imagination, Barnabas, the artwork is worse, even with digital colouring, which can often be amazing. When I started reading Spider-Man, Gil Kane was on pencils and John Romita senior was on inks.

Now? Humerto Ramos! Interesting artist but utterly wrong for a mainstream Marvel title.

Oh, and the artist drawing the Nomad back-up in Captain America is even worse. MUCH worse!!!

P.S. Leigh, if you've been reading comicbooks for three or four decades you'd be amazed how many characters you recognise. The only characters I don't generally know are modern X-Men. Otherwise, yep, I recognise all the names in lists.

ted sallis said...

Robert, i just noticed your nominees for a Garth Ennis themepack, i cannot believe Harold Jaekelsson isn't on yer list...is it because he spanked poor Thor ugly ? :0
I think if the majority of the 8000 subbies thought along the same lines as Leigh,namely that this collection was now into characters too obscure to warrant inclusion, Then Rich wouldn't be able to move for cancellation notices....but funnily ( unless Rich says otherwise )ennuf the peasants don't seem to be revolting

max_0888 said...

I must say, ive been a Marvel fan since I was a kid. My two big brothers were collecting a lot of comics so I could read everything they had!
But since I started collecting CMFC 2 years ago (ive been catching up and now i,m only missing 20 figurines to get them all), I think it made me an even bigger Marvel fan.
Each time a character is confirmed, I try and read more about him, try to get my hands on comics with that character! I want to know as much as I can about this character since he'll be in my collection soon. Yes, I want to like every CMFC character (it doesn't always work since I still don't care very much about Ikaris and Nomad), but I think I read more comics in the past 2 years than i've been reading all my life. I went from Marvel fan to a Marvel freak haha!
Amd I thank CMFC for that :) And the forum and this blog for talking about those characters and good comics they were in!
So looking at this list of 70 characters and i'm very excited about most of them! (I would hope Jessica Jones, Misty Knight and Colleen Wing to be there, but oh well, maybe theyll get more votes sooner rather than later)
Seriously in all that list only Sage and Spider-man 2099 i'm not interested in. Even Gargoyle that I don't know a lot, will make an awesome fig and makes me want to go read the Defenders (yes havent read those yet...but thats coming)

So, thats why I really dislike the idea of re-dos! I want to continue discovering those characters! So I say, bring em on EM, all those 70 and much more!

Robert said...

Ted, I was thinking more about the mangled victims in Ennis storylines, that was the theme-wthin-a-theme. I included Thor with broken arms, didn't I, which proves I am not exactly unpet at the Odinson's handling by Mr. Ennis. If I was including characters created by Garth, then, yes, the Jackal's Son would appear, as would the likes of F***face.

Agree with you about Leigh, too. He is constrained in his thinking by the short time (to us oldies) that's he's been reading comicbooks and also by the limits of what he's been reading. It's like a guy from Australia trying to explain to a guy from Iona what life is like.

P.S. Nothing against Iona. It's actually quite nice there (although the ferry ride in bad weather's a bit hairy).

BobDiamond said...

Not that I wouldn't get all of them anyway, but I counted approx 50 characters that I'd like to have from John's list, and about 20 characters that I'd LOVE to have. Not a fan of some of the newer X- men/ New Mutant/ Runaways types, but that's just personal taste.

And talking of 'personal taste', I for one would really love to have Howard the Duck included soon. I am a proud owner of a complete run of his original series, and to my mind HtD is an absolutely essential and iconic Marvel character, the writing of which by the late, great Steve Gerber was some of the most ground-breaking and innovative of the 70s/ Bronze Age of Comics. Forget the awful film, that's like judging Cap America by the c**p movie from the early 90s (which I've got BTW- cause I love c**p movies- 'Plan 9 from Outer Space' anyone?!).
Heck, I'd buy a HtD Sub-Set, featuring all his superhero pastiches (Kill-Mallard, Master of Quack-Fu, Iron Duck, Lobo the Duck etc).
....but I'm probably alone on that one...
Anyway, nice to be back,
Cheers all,
BD

ted sallis said...

Well i braved the attic for a quick rummage found some old Fear and Man-Thing issues. Number 21 of MT, no wonder that freaked me oot as a boy, the Scavenger, this young adonis who is a thrall of some demon Thog? breaks into this auld grannies hoose and snogs her sucking oot her life force till there is nothing but a skeleton left lying on the kitchen floor.
Cheers for that Gerber.
Scavenger does look very cool tho, My old unbagged comics pure reek of of chateau 75 :)

BobDiamond said...

I've got that one Ted! Certainly sticks in your mind that particular scene...
BD

Robert said...

Talking about 70's Marvel messing with your mind, I distinctly remember a Frankenstein story (drawn by John Buscema and in the back of a Dracula Lives! comic?) where the "monster" watches a gypsy girl take a naked dip in a pool. At the time, I felt a strange sensation in my stomach (or thereabouts), and had no idea what the hell it meant...

Word verification is "nootebod"! I kid you not!

Bagman said...

Just for the record Robert I don't know anyone from Iona and have never tried to explain life to them, Still trying to figure out what its about myself. LOL!
And growing up in the 70's i tried to read every Marvel comic i could get my hands on,even one's with THE DUCK.

BobDiamond said...

As we happen to be on the old nostalgia path again, as well as the never-ending Sub-Set Discussion, I thought I'd put the 2 together and come up with my ideal '70s Sub-Set Extravaganza!'(limited to 10...for now)

Howard the Duck (obviously)
Ghost Rider- Johnny Blaze
Omega The Unknown
Bloodstone (thinkin' of you Ted..)
Frankenstein's Monster
Werewolf by Night
Human Fly
Mantis
White Tiger (orig)
Devil Dinosaur (special)

Come on Robert, Ted, Bagman and all other Golden Oldies- let's see your choices! (I can see Leigh groaning quietly in the corner, shaking his head in despair:))

BD

pirate adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pirate adam said...

NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!!
NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!! NO DUCKS!!

Still no one??...never mind

anyway

hows about a little game? i know Bob loves a game...so...with the next extension surely about to be announced, who do you think will be the first character named?

i'll go with Gamora or High Evolutionary

YES!! you can pick two and the prize is a GREAT BIG MAN HUG FROM TED :)

PA

Bagman said...

BobDiamond ---
Most of my 70's choices have no hope of getting made because of licensing -
CONAN
KULL
RED SONJA
THULSA DOOM
THOTH AMON
VALERIA
BELIT
JOHN CARTER
DEJAH THORIS
TARS TARKUS (special).

So how about adding these two to your list-
KILLRAVEN
CLEA.

ted sallis said...

Ah Bagaman i feel yer pain, The Robert E Howard characters were a huge part of the Marvel Universe when i was growing up Conan alone had 3 titles on the go,would give my eye teeth for Belit, Red Sonja Solomon Kane etc.
Bob, Your 70's list is perfect...almost :),just replace Human Fly with Killraven.
PA, the one hundred and eightyfirst figurine to be announced will be??..........the duck :)

Gremlin said...

Shout out to Rich.

Do you have any information on the release order of the upcoming specials?
You mentioned a while ago that you would have liked to release the Odin sculpt around the same time as the Thor film comes out. Is that still likely or ahve production issues halted that one?

Thor8 said...

When it comes to getting around the forum,I am quite a klutz. So John,could you please tell me how to log into the poll where you got the list of characters from? All I could find was apoll for double packs wanted.

LAWay said...

Cant really jump in on the 70s game. I didnt really start reading until the late 90s which were x-men and spider-man...as they were in the local newsagents. In the 2000s I read pretty much anything and everything marvel were putting out. Sure I havent been reading decades compared to you guys, but surely the fact that the little impact some characters have had since the 70s means that they are not important characters. Its good you guys are seeing them for nostalgia's sake, and i guess thats why its called 'classic'.

Not in terms of the character represented, but maybe the age and era of comics. With that being said, its confusing why some characters are produced in their most modern appearance.

As for artists, there are a few awful modern artists that do a sort of abstract look, but there are so many great artists right now. tbh, marvel comics in the digital age never looked so good. I never did understand the god like love for eisner and ditko. Sure, at the time they put their stamp on things, they may have wrote some of the rules back then, but the artwork doesnt compare to nowadays.

But it may be a generation thing.

Robert said...

Bob, as a kid my comic allowance went on Spidey, Captain B and the odd copy of MWOM. Most months in the mid-to-late '70s I also got a copy of MTU, just about the only original US Marvel I could find.

So, my '70s list would mainly be villains who fought Spidey, the Invaders, Cap A and B, or Shellhead.

BobDiamond said...

First off, thanks Bagman for reminding me of Killraven. I don't know how I could forget him, as I've been campaigning for his inclusion for months now! Always been one of my Top 5 Wants- and I go and forget him completely....(it's an age thing...)
Secondly, totally agree about the Robert E Howard characters, if Marvel still had the licence then they would be my MAIN 'wants'right now. They would look amazing as a set of figures. Just finished reading a bunch of early John Buscema 'Conans' that I picked up for a pittance from my LCS, as a matter of fact. Big John B and Barry W Smith are my 2 favourite comic artists ever! And Roy Thomas never wrote anything as good as his early Conans IMO.
Thirdly, can we include Clea as a 70s character? Wasn't she around in the 60s? Not totally sure myself, but I kind of think she was...
Fourthly, Pirate Adam's game...There's been so much polling concerning The High Evolutionary on the SHFF that I would go along with you about him being a good bet to start off the next extension.
My other thought is Vance Astro. No original GotG yet, and he was in both groups...

BD

Barnabas said...

My first exposure to MArvel was Fantastic and Terrific comics which predated the M.W.O.M. so I did have early exposure. And I do think that there's a generational aspect to the varid collectors tastes here. And yes, there are some fantastic artists at the moment, Greg Land springs to my mind. But maybe that's always case. I like Ditko style, but (and please don't kill me) have never been a great fan of Kirby. I appreciate his work more these days as I'm older. And I was looking at some of the Todd McFarlane's work on spidey recently. While he had a style which influenced a generation of artists and may still do even until today. I find his actual art has dated terribly.
So yes, I think classic beetle for the collection, but see the need to have the modern costume - as I'm probably in the minority on that one. So we all have our individual wants, looks and pose of characters, but we seem to jog along just fine. EM allows us to influence the collection to a point and I think do take note of our now and again rants. (I generally don't rant just ramble, unless someone manages to push one of my buttons).
So YAY! to Eaglemoss for feeding our addiction.
And YAY! to us, for being us!

I go and see the nurse now for new pills....... ;0)

Barnabas

Bagman said...

My apologies BobDiamond, your right CLEA first appeared in 1964.
How about STARLORD (1975) being added to the list.

ted sallis said...

Well Robert, due to a rather odd stroke of luck, i have ordered the Earl Norem artwork. My bro oot in the middle of the English channel showed my mosaics on his iphone thingy tae some salty seadog and i am now making a movie Spidey, even better he paid up front,av checked with my beloved, i've got all the kids school outfits and Birthday presents bought. I can just about justify the occassional splurge.
I'm proper excited i am
Leigh check out Mr Norems work from the 70's he did painted covers for Conan , Hulk, DHOKF etc, Sadly the useless old duffer probably couldn't draw a decent Pokemon

Robert said...

Great news about the artwork, Ted. You'll need to take photos for your blog so we can all drool over it. It's nice when this old hobby of ours can still get us excited. I, too, find myself returning to the 1970s for my kicks now. Next on my to-get list is that Spidey Treasury with the cover homage to the 'jailbreak' Wings album cover. I promised myself it as a treat when I finish the door surround in the living room.

LAWay said...

Great artist that Earl Norem, but then I do love the painted look like Joe jusko.

Exciting news...and the definitive subset feature.

Age of Apocalypse!

Why? Because X-Force will be in a storyline going to fight the x-men from the AoA saga, with it being said it wont just be a fan service story, but will effect all of the 616 universe. Not only that, but Marvel are tipping this year to be the year of the x-men.

So, theres only one answer.

Unless they go down the Fear Itself storyarc. Anyone seen some teasers of juggernaut, grey gargoyle and absorbing man with Thor like hammers and new costumes? New, fresh exciting new looks that effect marvel now. Bring it on EM!

BobDiamond said...

70s Wish List continued....

Howard the Duck
Ghost Rider- Johnny Blaze
Omega The Unknown
Bloodstone
Frankenstein's Monster
Werewolf by Night
Human Fly
Mantis
White Tiger (orig)
Devil Dinosaur (special)

Plus..
Killraven
Starlord (Great call Bagman. Orig. costume 'natch.)
Gamora
Pip the Troll (For Robert)
Skull the Slayer (love to have him..)
Living Mummy
Misty Knight/ Colleen Wing- Double pack
Sons of the Tiger -Triple Pack (I'd die happy if they ever made that last one...)

70s Bad-Guys???

A few I'd like to see...

The Magus (Adam Warlock's future-self. I think he counts as a separate character.)
Steel Serpent
Shockwave
Razor-Fist
Zaran
Jig-Saw
Graviton
Korvac
Arnim Zola

Any more???

BD

BobDiamond said...

How could I forget Starhawk of The GotG?!
The others were 60s characters (just)- but Starhawk first appeared in The Defenders in the early 70s. Definitely one I want.

BD

Robert said...

Aw, Bob, you included Pip for me! Thanks for that.

I'm afraid that Magus doesn't really qualify as a different character, though. In the original storyline, he was a future incarnation of Adam who was corrupted and became evil; much later in the Infinity series he was said to be Adam's evil characteristics or "shade'" (in the same way that the Goddess was his good side). Pity. The original story is a classic, even with the electric Afro that the Magus is sporting, and he'd make a great figure.

Not overly fussed about any other names you've mentioned except for Mantis and a classic Ghost Rider. I removed the chain from mine and filed it down but I'm afraid that my repainting job left a lot to be desired!

BobDiamond said...

Yeah, I know I'm stretching the rules a bit, but it's Starlin's version of The Magus that I'd really want. The afro-look is definitely the classic!

BD

Robert said...

I could live with the pony-tailed version from the Infinity series, if it came to it, Bob. You're right, though: Electric Afro is the classic look.

John said...

That Top 70 list I posted came from the SHFF's CMFC Request Poll. Go to the CMFC section and you'll see a thread called 181-200 Request Poll... or something similar.

By the looks of these 70's lists, Star-Lord is the big want for me. Though the era a character started means little to me. Its what they've done since being created that matters.

I'm still chugging through Annihilation again, which gave me a huge appreciation for the Cosmics, and made me a HUGE fan of the new GotG (which is why Rocket Raccoon is my #1 want... preferably Doubled with Groot.)

So... yes to the old GotG, the new GotG, the Heralds of Galactus, a Brood, a Badoon, Deathbird and Vulcan, Shuma Gorath, Ego, Blastaar, Pip the Troll, Paibok, Supreme Intelligence, Imperial Guard, Beyonder, High Evolutionary, Grandmaster, Eternity and Death. There's not a one of those I wouldn't want.

Though my Top 10 Cosmics go to;
Rocket Raccoon
Gamora
Phyla-Vell
Groot
Star-Lord
Cosmo
Eternity
Stardust
Blastaar
Ego

ted sallis said...

Posted up the Earl Norem pics, It is a watercolur piece from an FF book called danger island, His painted covers start at about £2500-£3000, if i had maxed out the cards on one of those , my dearest would have my testeclons in a jar.
So Rich i've shown you mine , now show me yours, and while your at it a peek at Odin would be nice too ;)

avenger guy said...

what about a Pet Avengers subset so that we can instead use up lockjaws special space for another.

LAWay said...

doubt there will be an update today but would be nice to see.

Prove me wrong EM! :)

BobDiamond said...

Are the Pet Avenger stories supposed to be set in the regular 616 Universe or some other one? Gotta say I can't take them seriously.
Marvel have been doing all sorts of weird stuff over the last few years- Zombies, Apes, Pet Avengers- none of which appeals to me (except I did buy the GN of Army of Darkness vs Marvel Zombies 'cause I enjoy strange cross-overs...it was ok-ish I suppose...

BD)

Thor8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thor8 said...

Yep,it sure would have been nice to get an update today,but it seems we'll have no such luck.

Bob,I totally agree that Marvel has sure produced some real weird stuff lately,much of which I'm not really too fond of. It seems as though they are putting out all the old DC stuff from the 50's and 60's. Legion Of Super Pets ( Pet Avengers),Bizzaro Superman,Bat-man,etc.(Zombie Heroes),Earth 1,Earth 2,etc.(Earth 616 and so on). The Lion of Steel and others,(so we get ape heroes). So what's next on their list? Imaginary stories? Don Blake,Bruce Banner and Tony Stark were raised by Ben and May Parker?

Robert said...

Marvel don't give a fig about continuity now, Bob. I bought the Avengers vs. Pet Avengers series and it was a complete waste of my time and money. (Well, the pictures were nicely coloured, I guess.) It's basically a one-off issue stretched wafer-thin so it'd fit into a collected edition. The team-up won't be mentioned again and it'll all be forgotten about. Continuity? What does that mean?

And Thor8 is right. Marvel is trying to be DC. When I was young, DC wanted to be Marvel...

Robert said...

Signed off and then realised I'm not finished.

Marvel will do anything to sell a comic now. They're still insulting us with variant covers and the storylines they peddle are increasingly sensationalistic, exploitative, cynical and disinterested in what's gone before.

Now that 'death' issues are a regular cheap stunt and honest, sensitive characters like Gwen Stacy have become sluts, I would not be surprised if 2011 becomes the Year we get Peter Parker flashing his willy or Spider-Woman going topless. Anything to sell a comic and to hell with the audience, they're just a bunch of mugs waiting to have their pockets picked.

ted sallis said...

heh, you said willy

Robert said...

It's easier to type that than "metre long King Kong dong".

ted sallis said...

Robert, i find cranking this up to ten, while reading Marvel Zombies improved my reading pleasure exponentialy.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1hLduV1p88

enjoy big guy :)

Robert said...

I'm speechless.

And I can't test your suggestion as I don't own any Marvel zombie comicbooks.

Which is maybe just as wang, I mean, well.

Thor8 said...

Robert; I hear ya! It's been quite a while now since the powers that be at Marvel have thrown continuity and anything related down the toilet. there was a time every little detail no matter how small and insignificant would fit into the time continuum and Marvel Universe perfectly. If something was said or done that didn't quite fit,both The Marvel Staff and readers alike would find a solution and everything would be put to rights once more. That's how we got the 1950's Cap and Bucky situation explained and The 50's Bucky went on to become Nomad. And when Bruce Banner was called "Bob" Banner my mistake (Stan always did have a bad memory for these things)It was later noted that his full name was ROBERT Bruce Banner.Nowadays a writer can state that Uatu the Watcher is Peter Parker's cousin once removed on his mother's side and nobody gives a hoot on explaining this. It sure is a shame that Marvel today is so disdain with what took the Marvel founders to built.

Robert said...

Thor8, I just get angry when I think about what Marvel does now. I want to be able to buy new comicbooks every month. I've done it for 35 years and I don't want to stop. But I just can't fool myself any more and have to stop. I honestly thought I would buy Marvel comicbooks till the day I die. I was probably right, but it will be old comicbooks from my youth, not anything new.

Thor8 said...

I feel the same way. There are truly few if any books that make me feel the thrill and excitement I used to feel when a new batch of books would arrive and I didn't know which one to read first. I,like you also thought I would be reading Marvel comics till the day I 'd depart this planet of ours,but it seems Marvel beat me to the punch and died out first.

LAWay said...

to be fair comics have changed alot nowadays. There are so many titles and spin-offs of the main teams, characters etc its hard to keep track of them all, so no wonder continuity must slide abit every now and then. As for Marvel copying DC...seems the other way around...whatever Marvel does DC has tried to do for the last 10 years at least.

[PS] Bevan said...

Greetings, from Christchurch New Zealand.
after years of collecting, the earthquake here has took half my collection away.
I had a great time with this collection, and The standard for these kind of collections has had the bar raised with this. I'm sorry to see the end of this and hope you do a rerun one day.

Robert said...

You make a fair point, Leigh, that characters who appear in limited series and team books will struggle to retain consistency. However, it's a much bigger problem than that: Marvel just doesn't care. Look at the titles for, say, Thor in the last six months or so. In his regular title, Thor is behaving out of character, i.e., he has resurrected Loki because he misses his "brother". (Thor8 will back me up here, but all evidence says Thor hates Loki.) Then we have the Thor: Mighty Avengers series which completely rewrote the Thor story, there's Thor: For Asgard, which has Thor looking like some sort of skull-wearing heavy metal parody, there's the inconsistent relationship with Iron Man (animosity or best buddies, take your pick?) and I haven't even mentioned all the series yet (or crap like the Avengers vs Pet Avengers, which was mentioned yesterday)! I have no idea what's from the regular MU and what's not. It's a complete mess. Marvel policy: A Thor film is coming out so let's flood the market with Thor stuff and see what sells. To hell with a plan. To hell with internal consistency. (Which is not the same as inter-dependency.) To hell with the integrity of the characters. To hell with the future. Marvel just want to hear the ching of tills and the bleep of card machines.

LAWay said...

Its true its all about money, but i cant see how they can be consistent when each character has at least 2-3 titles dedicated to themselves, and then also appear in about 2-3 team comics, not forgetting cameos, and then main crossover titles. It is quite ridiculous, and I guess either the blame is on the writers or the editors for not being up to speed with what everyone else is doing.

Best bet is just dont read them all, or each issue containing the main character is purposely out of continuity just to tell stories in their own world.

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