Hey guys, Will Sliney here. I just want to take you through my process of creating the Vance Astro Cover for issue 190 of the Classic Marvel Figurine Collection.
The brief.
As far as covers go, this was quite a standard brief. The point of it was to convey Vance in a heroic pose, bringing in some of the cosmic elements that accompany the Guardians of the Galaxy. I was supplied with plenty of reference, and I picked up a copy of Guardians of the Galaxy just to familiarize myself even more with the character. The first step in any illustration piece, whether it's a comic book pg, a cover or anything, is to thumbnail it out. A thumbnail is basically a quick image drawn to put your ideas down onto paper. It's essentially a visual brainstorming session. For Vance I came up with over 20 thumbnails, as I wanted to make sure I got the right pose. I wanted to supply the guys at CMFG and Marvel with plenty of options too. The more thumbnails you draw, the greater the likelihood you have of creating a decent image.
In the end, these were the 8 thumbnails I chose to send. My personal favourites were 1 and 3. Luckily for me, they chose to go with no. 3 With the layout chosen, its time to build up the figure. I work digitally in layers, but this is essentially the same as building up layers of pencil. I tend to work from very basic up. Adding in the Gesture first.
Followed by the musculature. Essentially, by now, all the hard work is done.
Over this I lay down the inks. After figuring out the lighting and shadows, all of the hard decisions have been made, now I can concentrate on the line weights and quality, giving the figure that polished finished.
Looking at the shield, I spent quite a while adding in tons of reflection lines. That's just a rendering technique that I enjoy doing myself.
To give it that cosmic feel I added in the classic Kirby Krackle that was made so famous back in the sixties by Jack Kirby himself.
When considering colour, I chose to invert the background and use the Kirby Kracle as a negative space window, through which I could add some nice space themed colours.
Now, onto colouring. First things first, I flat the image. This just separates out the individual areas for quick colouring. I find this the most tedious part of the colour process.
Add in the shading, and lighting in the figure. Make sure you pay attention to the lighting that was created in the inking stage of the figure.
After the lighting is done I usually apply a mood filter depending on the environment that the character is in. This is done by creating a separate layer of strong colour and adjusting its opacity. Basically it's like placing a light see through colour filament over the piece. Finally, add the background colours and give the shield some nice shiny effects.
Then one final change, (a good suggestion from my editor) to play down some of the line work in the white areas of the suit as well as some background tweaks.
And we are done! Hope you guys liked the step by step process. You can see more of my work over at my blog at sliney.blogspot.com
102 comments:
Mister Sliney that was really really cool, many thanks indeed , you clever wee thing you.
Great work on the cover.
LOVE IT!!!!
Very interesting. Great work.
What about new collection BIG resin figurines???
Can we have any information about it???
WBR,
CheshireCat
And they think there's nothing to write about on this blog now...
Really interesting guest blog. Thanks, guys!
That was really interesting THANKS
Very well done. This is a clever way for Dan not to answer any questions or to give any information concerning the collection.
Cool blog, nice to see it on a stage-by-stage basis and how things develop :)
Mr Sliney, the Vance Astro cover is stupendous. Thanks so much for showing us the creative process. Every stage had something beautiful in it, and it's great to be able to admire the line work, the shading work, the colour work and everything else in such focused way.
Dan, this was a fab blog innovation. Thanks. We would still like to hear your thoughts about Deathbird's colour scheme, though. Marvel reference images indicate that her boots and the outer range of feathers should be pale blue.
yes we've made some minor changes to Deathbird.
After some of the comments last week, we went through the comic reference we have and although she has had numerous costume variations, we agreed that some blue was needed. It's subtle but I think it's definitely improved her.
As for the large figurines, I'm not really in the know with it, but the feeling I get is that it was a test/trial to see if there was an interest. I'm really not sure if it will actually see the light of day. Hopefully any orders placed will be honoured, but don't quote me on that.
Thanks Guys!
Hmmm... Something strange happened this morning. A subby pack arrived and I didn't care.
Yes, Tiger Shark was OK. Issi Noho was just... Well I'll not be too unkind.
The back of one of the covers revealed Domino next, one of five really rather poor females in just six issues.
I'll be cancelling on Wednesday. This collection is dead, but it didn't die as much as it was killed by increasingly poor character choices.
Awesome Vance Astro cover, well done Mr. Sliney :)
I was hoping to pick my Nico Minoru today, only to find out that she has not arrived yet! :( My Graphic Novels Collection books arrived but no figurines, they usually arrive together. My newsagent suggested the possibility that the delay may be because of bank holiday, though this problem has never happened before.
Hey I just thought, isn't Terrax out soon?
Hey mgf, if you're gonna cancel, at least get J Jonah Jameson first! Some people may see him only as a civilian, but in my eyes, he's a must have in any Marvel collection! JJJ is one of my fave characters of all time! I'm just gutted he won't be in the new Spider-Man movie.
Speaking of movies, anyone seen the latest on Iron Man 3? Involving a certain IRON PATRIOT armour being shown! Who knows what Marvel Universal Studios plan to do with it in the film or the future though because from what I've read, it won't be Norman Osborn wearing it, but the character known as Coldblood.
And finally, Dan, did you see my suggestion for the Warriors Three in the previous post? What are your personal thoughts on that?
SV
So if Eaglemoss aka = couldn't give a toss , were just testing the waters to see if there was enough interest in a large scale resin marvel heroes and villains collection , why couldn't they test the waters with extra extensions of this collection to see if there was enough interest ?
They've seriously given up by the look of things.
The quality of the latest figurines is poor and it seems as though they are not being checked before being sent out.
Aracne is a good example - people were complaining on here about the quality and I know that my local comic shop has had about 15 Aracne issues and they have all been crappy. The hands are knackered , too fat , bent , too much paint etc.
Losing interest now !!
Yeah, well in the States we just got Drac, Avalanche, and Thunderbird. They are all awesome, and I am glad to have them.
It really sucks that this line is dying.
DAN!!!!!!!
Do you talk to any of the execs?? Do you pass along our suggestions?? If so, this larger line proves that they can do another extension made of resin at either the same price or higher cost and make money. Heck, let them even go back and make 9 character redo's, the other 11 should be new, of course! After seeing Vance Astro I really want a Martinex made from resin!
I don't care about the newer bigger H&V line, but I do care about the CMFC!!
Lil' help here!!!!!!
Avelanche was another dodgy one , lots of damaged figurines.
the feet have melted over the edge of the base and he's standing at a pissed angle. It took me ages to get a reasonable looking one and that's still not perfect.
Perhaps Eaglemoss are losing money in postage costs due to so many people returning damaged figurines.
Maybe if they were checked properly in the first place before sending them out , this wouldn't happen as much.
They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery !!
Go on, someone say it:
This is a job for...
As we were assured female figs outsell those boring dynamic male characters, then surely the recent glut of female bestsellers will cause the suits to think again.
Arachne, Nike Molestu,Mockerybird,magik,Sheena,Domino all of which have sold in their millions.
Yep, I have a pretty good feeling about this.
holy hell, is there an update where MGF doesnt berate the collection and show us hes overtly sexist ?
Guys if you nip down to you local Forbidden Planet you can pick up two awesome key chains.
Die Cast Captain America's Shield and the unbelievable Mjolnir.
They are both big and heavy and absolutely stunning.
The Shi Devil has attached Cap's shield to her scalf as a pendant and Mjolnir sits here in front of my monitor,
At £4.99 each they are a steal.
Poison Ivy chess figure is another super sexy femal character.
Dan, request a forum poll to find out how many people want the large scale resin figurines.
I know that I do.
By for now ... a slightly drunken overs*xed DP signing out.
PS my Shi-devil is an absolute babe.
If Dan/EM wanted to run a poll, I feel that precedence should be given to a poll about the CMFC or its possible successor, meaning figures in CMFC scale/style and coverage of other characters in the MU:
a) would you continue to buy CMFC figures if the price went up to £7.99 each? My answer would be yes.
b) would you be happy to pay £7.99 if the figures were in resin? My answer would be yes.
c) would you be happy if the CMFC continued to explore all MU areas and give you more of those awesome characters left to cover? My answer would be yes.
d) would you be happy if EM rebooted the CMFC so that they can restart with the new £7.99 price and allow existing subscribers to start a new subscription? My answer would be yes.
e) would you be happy if the new rebooted CMFC restarted from #1 and include some of the major characters again (to support its commercial success) but also continue to cover other characters left to cover, effectively picking up from where the original CMFC has ended? My answer would be yes.
5 YES's.
I think EM should run this poll. I am baffled that they have not chosen to run it - yet - despite all the requests in this blog and the forum. Dan, please? Can you try to persuade EM bosses that a poll would benefit your business as much as it benefits us loyal collectors?
Please Dan???
I've just sniffed lighter fluid through my tear ducts, it's very clear to me now , the reason the cmfc is ending is down to a marketing fiasco, you had the worlds biggest ever movie ...yet incredibly not a single tie in figurine was released.
Films like John Carter are once in a generation type events...it's too late now.....what a waste....what a waste.......
I'm just about to watch the tv series - The Cape.
Anyone seen it ?
Great update and really nice to see the production process with the artist's thought process throughout. It would be awesome if we could get a take of perhaps with the same character, the artist's choice of pose, and the sculptor's stage by stage process etc etc so we get a real 'from start to finish' thing.
Shame about the large figurines were just a test. Would have been better if they actually sold those figurines, test or not. Customer services did get back to my email apologizing and asked for my address to send something to me...what I dont know, probably that rooftop spidey scaled up like that forum member posted, but its a shame as the preview looked wonderful.
Also, yes SV, saw the Iron Patriot pics just now! Very excited and confused. I am hoping its just a lil easter egg thing, but with the actor who plays an Iron Man villain in the costume, it makes me worry. No one should be wearing that costume other than Norman Osbourne.
Questions i wish i had asked at Stans Q&A
Do you think Mr Fantastic tends to blow his own trumpet?
Was Thor based on the Norse god of the same name?
Are you doing celebrity big brother?
a) would you continue to buy CMFC figures if the price went up to £7.99 each?
-No, not with the direction the character selection is going in. I would buy a new collection at this price, but not the current one. The sculpts would HAVE to be truly special to tempt me. I was tempted by the DC chess sets and the CG renders looked great, but actual figurines look awful (mainly due to cheap metallic paint), the £7.99 price tag is too much for an impulse buy.
b) would you be happy to pay £7.99 if the figures were in resin?
-Yes, the material is not important to me. They could be plastic and I would buy them at £7.99 as long as they looked good. Like I said though, I doubt I would buy future figures of THIS collection at that price, all due to character choice. I may buy the odd few, but I would definitely unsubscribe, and would need to see the figurines before I bought.
c) would you be happy if the CMFC continued to explore all MU areas and give you more of those awesome characters left to cover?
-No...kinda. At £5.99, I think a few more good extensions are possible. I dont think it can pass far beyond 240/260. In my opinion, there are more awesome characters that already featured in the CMFC, with even more awesome costumes, aliases and classic comic moments that I think deserve/want more.
d) would you be happy if EM rebooted the CMFC so that they can restart with the new £7.99 price and allow existing subscribers to start a new subscription?
-Yes, although define 'reboot'? All new looking sculpts, new costumes etc then it sounds great.
e) would you be happy if the new rebooted CMFC restarted from #1 and include some of the major characters again (to support its commercial success) but also continue to cover other characters left to cover, effectively picking up from where the original CMFC has ended?
-Yes. I think this is a must. A rebooted series HAS to go over every major character all over again, with the difference being that instead of seeing the likes of Nico and Shanna, we get characters we havent seen before. Ideally, this is what I would prefer over the continuation of the CMFC.
Not quite as clear cut, but essentially, I would love a rebooted resin CMFC at £7.99, but the major characters have to be redone, costume variants and aliases MUST be allowed in addition to the rebooted major characters, and it must include characters that didnt quite make the first cut of the CMFC, but sparingly.
a) would you continue to buy CMFC figures if the price went up to £7.99 each? My answer would be yes.
b) would you be happy to pay £7.99 if the figures were in resin? My answer would be yes.
c) would you be happy if the CMFC continued to explore all MU areas and give you more of those awesome characters left to cover? My answer would be yes.
d) would you be happy if EM rebooted the CMFC so that they can restart with the new £7.99 price and allow existing subscribers to start a new subscription? My answer would be yes.
e) would you be happy if the new rebooted CMFC restarted from #1 and include some of the major characters again (to support its commercial success) but also continue to cover other characters left to cover, effectively picking up from where the original CMFC has ended? My answer would be yes
I'm starting to prefer if this collection was made from resin.
I was dead against it from the start, but some of my figs are losing their shape!
Maybe figs returns have been costing EM?!
Go RESIN!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with DP about the Cap shield & Thor hammer key chains. I bought both earlier this year from Entertainment Earth online. Both are heavy & well detailed down to the writing on Thor's hammer. Both are too well done to use as a key chain.
To MT, I did watch "The Cape" on TV when it came out last year & I liked it but they cancelled it of course.
How are your figures losing shape JB?
I would continue to buy new figures if they raised the price & went to resin. The SASQUATCH & CLAYFACE resin figures were well done. It was the collection itself with different Marvel heroes & villains made in a nice size of not too big & not too small & easy too display not that it was made in lead though the weight to a figure was nice but not necessary. I have bought Bowen busts & statues & he has done some characters that the EM Collection had not done yet like WHIRLWIND & GREY GARGOYLE & THE WRECKING CREW & DRAGONMAN & TITANIUM MAN but then he has not done busts of characters EM did do figures of like KLAW & THE GRIM REAPER & THE BEETLE & THE WIZARD & HAMMERHEAD & THE OWL & THE SWORDSMAN & THE PUPPET MASTER. Of course Bowen busts take up more room compared with the EM figures. Also EM's Collection was doing different characters from the vast Marvel U where as Bowen has done numerous Spidey, Ironman, X-Men, Cap, Hulk, Thor, FF, DD busts & statues but not doing the numerous great bad guy characters that are still left. I had hoped EM would keep going for maybe another 50 issues & additional specials to include some major villain characters that still had not been done like WHIRLWIND, THE COBRA & MR. HYDE, ATTUMA, BLASTAAR, MOLTEN MAN, TOMBSTONE, DRAGONMAN, TITANIUM MAN, SKURGE, BARON MORDO, STILT-MAN, THE MELTER, THE SCARECROW, THE JACKAL, THE HIGH EVOLUTIONARY, DIABLO, THE RED GHOST, THE LIVING LASER, THE GREY GARGOYLE, THE LIVING MONOLITH, PRINCESS PYTHON, MR. FEAR, JACK O'LANTERN, NIGHTMARE, MASTERMIND, THE MAD THINKER, THE DESTROYER, THE WRECKING CREW as well as ARCHANGEL, THE WARRIORS THREE, MANTIS, LOCKJAW, MARRINA, SUNSPOT, BLACK GOLIATH, BOX, DUST & if they wanted to have redoes of say a classic armored IRONMAN, a new costume THOR, a more action stanced SPIDEY, CAP, WOLVERINE & HULK, original costumed MYSTIQUE, HAVOK, DOC OCK, PUNISHER, WOLVERINE to mix in with the new figures I would buy them as to keep the collection going.
I agree with MGF on the poor females point. If that makes me a sexist too then whatever.
If I could swap 80% of the collections females for males I would in a flash.
Poor female figurines had me considering packing in last year.
Snowbird was poor, Wasp's hair...., Silver Sable, Marvel Girl, Firestar, Destiny, Songbird, Moondragon and Photon were all well below par. IMO they were used to balance costs and boy does it show.
I'm not hearing good things about customer copies of Nico and Arachne either.
I've said in the past that I would continue buying regardless of cancellation of the CMFC but I'll admit to thinking twice atm.
My next delivery will take me up to Sif or maybe JJJ. Looking at the pics on the website I honestly only want 3 of the next 10 (Swordsman Gamora and Vance) and maybe 3-5 from the final 10.
Supporting EM 100% to get more extensions was one thing but buying characters I dont know or care for seems like blind loyalty now.
My figure has lost it's shape since this collection began. My advice keep your figurines away from lemon curd tarts.
Just read that Tigershark was created by Doctor Dorcas. Absolute comedy gold.
Simon, I wouldn't consider myself sexist. I would ask the wife but she's in the kitchen.
Ithangyew.
It is true I'm no cuddly liberal, though, so I'm sure you will be suitably appalled.
This modern MU, this simpering, wet PC BS version is not the MU that launched a comics empire. It is the MU that destroyed a comics empire, and turned comics from mass market to an irrelevance. The darker and more "real" it becomes, the fewer copies it shifts. It is almost as if Marvel comics have given up, and now just want to change a costume, kill off a character for a year, or change a sexuality here and there solely for a couple of column inches in the New York Times. "Hey, we must still be in business! We got mentioned on Good Morning America!"
They give not a stuff for what I and many others consider pop culture icons. They do not have a fraction of the talent of those who created and built this universe, and have replaced old fashioned creativity with "events".
Check the sales figures if you don't believe me.
I reckon if Disney could turn it all digital tomorrow and close it down they would. Strike that. They will. They will do that, and as soon as they possibly can. Your local comic shop is going the way of your video shop. You'll be downloading the adventures of Spider-Man and his husband to your IPad within the decade. I don't know if anyone else will.
What is the biggest movie of the year so far? The Avengers, based not on the dark brooding versions of modern Marvel characters, but on something that could have leapt straight from a Lee/Kirby issue from 50 years ago. That was the key to the success it enjoyed.
Someone at Marvel needs to ask themselves why you need a stick to keep people out of the cinemas to see the Avengers, but you need a stick to make them pick up an Avengers comic.
I know the reason. The movie is escapist fun, while the comics are too often navel gazing social commentary. A preserve not of Silver Age era thrills and spills, but of a truly bizarre mix of achingly correct themes, combined with shootings and stabbings. Oh, and no tobacco.
I have listened to some collectors who have lauded the female characters because they are sexy. Here's a thought. Either get a real woman or invest in a decent broadband connection. This isn't the place for your auto erotic habits. It [was] a place to collect little lead figures of rather wonderful, silly comic characters. It became a place to try and prove how cool and inclusive you could pretend to be. The younger collectors won the argument. Good for them. Their prize was cancellation, as many of us warned.
We have been told for two years the female characters have kept the CMFC going. Palpably, provably untrue. They killed it.
Brilliant post. If only our public figures spoke as much sense. MGF for President?
By the way, here's a question for you Marvel experts...
When did Wolverine first kill someone? He famously (for someone who has massive knives coming out of his hands) went years without using them "properly", so who was Wolvie's first "bag 'im up" victim?
No expert on X-Men or anything but was it Shingen in the Claremont-Miller LS? That's my best guess.
I think wolves 1st victim was credibility
This broody MU is a funny old thing, isn't it? I was thinking of its origins the other day and came to the conclusion it was in no small part down to Alan Moore and Frank Miller.
Both were at the forefront of the new realism, from Miracleman and V For Vendetta, to The Dark Knight Returns and Daredevil.
When those projects became critical and commercial successes the industry does what it always does. It copies slavishly. The problem being not everyone is as talented as Moore and Miller.
It is said the Silver Age began with the Flash. Maybe the modern era began with the death of Elektra. There you go. Bullseye killed Elektra AND comics.
Q: Would you continue to buy CMFC figures if the price went up to £7.99 each?
A: Yes, I think my limit would be around £12.99, happy up to that point. However, we've been making that point for weeks without a glimmer of hope or response from EM, so I think the chances of this happening are roughly the same as Disney deciding to can Avengers 2 in favour of the Return of John Carter
Q: would you be happy to pay £7.99 if the figures were in resin?
A: Ditto to Answer 1
Q: would you be happy if the CMFC continued to explore all MU areas and give you more of those awesome characters left to cover?
A: Ditto to Answer 1
Q: would you be happy if EM rebooted the CMFC so that they can restart with the new £7.99 price and allow existing subscribers to start a new subscription?
A: Depends on what is meant be rebooting. No interest in another shelf-full of Spideys, Hulks, Caps
Q: would you be happy if the new rebooted CMFC restarted from #1 and include some of the major characters again (to support its commercial success) but also continue to cover other characters left to cover, effectively picking up from where the original CMFC has ended?
A: Yes, with reservations. I'd probably cancel my subscription and pick up issues ad hoc from FP
Well I may not agree with mgf about the fact of female characters killing this collection and Marvel Comics,but I do agree with him about today's Marvel not being as good as yesteryear's Marvel. He sure hit the nail on the head when he mentioned The Avengers movie's success being due to how close it related to the Stan and Jack era. I used to buy comics for the pure enjoyment of a fantastic fantasy universe of bigger than life heroes and deadly villains and foes,continuation: where each detail no matter how small or insignificant would fall into place with what had gone before,and there was almost always a moral at the end of each story. Nowadays nothing matters but sales figures. Every writer writes what he wants to,how he wants to,and it doesn't matter if it contradicts what has gone on before as long as the book sells. As far as I'm concerned this all started with McFarlene,when Marvel decided to give him his own Spider-Man series due to his "big success" in the regular series. He soon developed the powers of inflating his head and his wallet,and as mfg stated copy cats started to want to do the same,each "placing their mark" on Marvel by developing their own "unique" style and thus destroying what Marvel's forefathers created. As I have mentioned in other posts,today's Marvel is just one "MEGA,SUPER,EXTRAORDINARY,NEVER SEEN BEFORE,__________ WILL NEVER BE THE SAME," story after the other with no true direction,plot,subplots,or character development whatsoever. Prices have gone up in order to pay today's over hyped writers,and quality has gone down,waaaay down.
As for this collection,it looks like I hit the nail on the head when I mentioned before that this new collection of Marvel Heroes and Villains was probably a test announcement to measure the acceptance by fans and collectors. Well we now know how this apparently turned out. So why doesn't EM try a similar test announcement by stating a new CMFC collection in resin priced at __________, and see what the results are!? What do you say EM? I believe we deserve an answer from you guys,so please loosen up your frozen tongues and speak to us.
Time for a little clarification...
I don't blame the crumbling of Marvel sales on female characters. I blame it on poor stories. Great stories sell, and those that are not great do not. The problem is that in addition to that simple truth people fall out of the habit of buying, and once that habit is broken it is hard to get it back.
I don't wish to sound all Four Yorkshireman about it but when I was buying comics you could go to your local newsagent once a month and find a pile of US comics with a UK price tag. Along with the latest FF, Avengers, Spidey, Defenders, DD, X-Men, I would also pick up Omega the Unknown, Skull the Slayer, Killraven. It can't have just been buying them because a pile of 100 or more soon vanished. Multiply that out by the number of newsagents and sales soon look very healthy. It does seem to me Marvel would rather sell 30,000 copies at three dollars than 90,000 at a dollar, which is fine if you don't mind trimming two thirds off your fanbase.
Comics are an entertainment, not a force for social change. They can reflect society, and have done so successfully without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those Green Lantern/Green Arrow comics from the early seventies are a great example of that.
Manga has not suffered to the same extent in Japan because it has kept its traditional core values of essentially being a source of entertainment, and not trying to evoke change.
Now, Marvel females... There are many great Marvel female characters. From the Invisible Woman, Black Widow, Storm, Phoenix, the criminally ignored Clea, there are loads.
My problem with the CMFC is that we left the good ones behind a VERY long time ago, and females started to be included because they were female and not because they were relevant to the collection or the MU. Four of the first twenty in this collection were female, and all relatively big Marvel hitters. We now find ourselves with five out of the current six being female, and we wonder why the collection was cancelled.
It's all moot now, of course, but what if even three of those had been replaced with Fandral, Whirlwind and Starhawk, as examples? OK, it wouldn't have polished EMs gleaming badge of inclusivity, but it might have got us another extension, or even saved a job or two.
I'm just checking, can we know buy figs on the EM website?
Just had a look in first time in ages and it seems you can order what ever you want.
Has any one been buying online and is the service good?
The Avengers success wasnt because it was like the 'Stan and Kirby' era, the Avengers is practically like the Ultimates, it sits with modern marvel storytelling.
You cant blame the collection failing due to poor marvel stories currently. The collection is exploring classic characters mainly nowadays. Collectors are dropping from the collection, not because of Marvel stories, but because you must assume the characters.
Female characters are all part of the varied catalogue of marvel's diverse characters, which everyone seemed to have wanted. The quality of some of these have not been great, but neither have a lot of male characters too. I know which sold more, and don't particularly care, I just wanted great characters in the collection.
If you are saying we past all the great female characters already, then you can argue the same with the male characters, or that we are getting close, which makes it more understandable why the collection is ending.
But the Avengers success isnt due to 'classic' marvel, and the failure of the CMFC isnt effected by 'modern' marvels storytelling.
SUPER INSISTENCE (my super power!)
Here we go again. The collection is categorically NOT ending because of lack of characters. It is ending because production costs have increased to the point where EM can no longer sustain the CMFC based on the current number of subscribers and impulse buyers. EM were doing a great service to Marvel fans who love characters from all ranks of the MU, and it's a pity that the current economy no longer allows them to continue what they have been doing so well.
THE PROOF IS IN THE PIE
What EM have been doing is an exploration of all MU areas, using a formula whereby every character is treated like a star in his/her own right. Clearly the formula is what the majority wanted, seeing how we stayed on this journey for 200 issues and wanted more.
A CMFC (PSEUDO)SCIENCE
I am super-insistent. I feel that there is almost scientific proof that character choice is not an issue. Take for example, extension 61-80, which is an early one. If EM decided to extend to 81-100, clearly it means that characters in 61-80 had proven interesting and commercially successful.
The MU is so rich in characters, you can replace those in 61-80 with another 20 and you will still have an extension that is equally attractive and interesting.
61-80 PERMUTATION, like this:
Spiderwoman = Mantis
Electro = Kaine
Cable = Fantomex
Dormammu = Doctor Voodoo
Black Bolt = Maximus the Mad
Psylocke = Magma
Vulture = Cobra
Hercules = Heimdall
The Leader = Count Nefaria
Carnage = Jackal
Quicksilver = Starfox
Black Widow = Misty Knight
Kang = Molecule Man
Havok = Sunspot
Falcon = USagent
Ms. Marvel = Lionheart
Sentry = Darkhawk
Crystal = Sersi
Wonder Man = Hyperion
Mr. Sinister = Exodus
KNOW THEM OR LEARN ABOUT THEM
Whether you are 100% familiar with these characters, or whether you'd have learned to admire them with a CMFC issue and figurine, there is no denying that this would have been another awesome extension that you'd have been happy to buy.
And it's just one of many possible examples:
Mantis
Kaine
Fantomex
Doctor Voodoo
Maximus the Mad
Magma
Cobra
Heimdall
Count Nefaria
Jackal
Starfox
Misty Knight
Molecule Man
Sunspot
USagent
Lionheart
Darkhawk
Sersi
Hyperion
Exodus
I now see mfg's point of view a bit clearer and I agree on what he's saying It's not that the collection failed because the characters were female as such,but rather why females were chosen and how they were portrayed. Adding more females just for the sake of it was an error. Let's face it: How many female charactrs have their own book in the MU or at DC for that matter? The male characters in both universes way out number the females so it is logical that the same would happen with these collections. "WE want to see more females in this collection" was not such a valid reason in itself to justify inclusion,and to top it off quite a few of the chosen ones were either little known or poorly portrayed. There were other more prominent female characters that should have made it into this collection rather than some that were chosen over them.
As for the comment of "The Stan and Jack Era". I was refering to the plot the action and the character developement and inter-relations amoung the characters,not thier "looks". Sure their was some modern updating in the movie,it's only logical that there had to be,but the main core of action,and story telling are truly Marvel classic style (IMO).
Yes BLAKE there truly are many Marvel characters that could have and still can be included into this collection if only EM would decide to give it another go.
1)Price increase is no problem as has already been stated by collectors here and on the forum.
2)Change in material used (Resin) has also been declared acceptable by collectors.
3) EM has already demostrated their interest in continuing to produce Marvel characters with their "Marvel's Heroes and Villains" test announcement.
So why not make these changes and make some improvements in their marketing and advertizing dept.and give it another test run?
Some will probably say why risk money and time on a dead project? I do not agree. A lot of passion and interest has been demonstrated by fans and collectors for this series and We believe there is a lot of life still left in it.
EM should send a questionarie to subscribers in there magazine asking if they are willing to keep subscribing if this collection were to continue with the changes already mentioned and contact ex-subscibers and ask them the same. They can also supply comic shops thru their distributors with a similar questionarie asking if they are willing to subscibe at their local shop dealer.
Come on guys there is still a long way to go with this collection
My young nephew ( he's 20 ) came to visit his befuddled old uncle, I heard him chuckling away to himself while reading one if my old issues of Mighty World of Marvel,
He was reading the first meeting between the FF and Spidey. Sue Storm has just Subdued Webhead the panel blurb read " your entirely too clever,and adorable,to be fighting with us! I'll bet your as handsome as you are muscular under that mask"
My nephew told me Sue is an absolute MILF, bless im I think he has a crush.
I had to look up MILF. You teenyboppers and your groovy slang!
Thor, MGF, one of my bugbears about modern comics is decompression. You can read a whole issue and it seems nothing at all happened. Even half a dozen isues, and you're thinking the same. Bendis is especially bad for page after page after page of folk standing around and blathering.
And that complaint is small potatoes to the inconsistent characterisation - Cap has anger issues, Banner likes being Hulk more than he loves Betty, etc.
I was talking about the content of the Avengers Assemble was consistent with modern comics.
But comics are a lot thinner now, and old comics used to explain a lot in their narrative captions and had usually a lot more panels per page.
EM need to know why people unsubscribed. To say a price increase is not a problem could be untrue. Maybe £5.99 was already too much for over 200 figurines.
I wouldnt want a price increase. I wouldnt buy the current extension for £7.99. I would pick and choose.
To anyone who has unsubscribed, why did you do so and what could EM do to make you re-subscribe?
If EM are willing to do test runs though, they should consider a short extension with the proposed changes, maybe 10 characters. But maybe logistically its too much of a change, and we dont know how much damage has been done already.
Sure, it's important to hear all opinions on matters of price. This is mine: I discovered the CMFC only 3 years ago, when I saw some figurines in a Forbidden Planet display. I thought they'd cost at least £12 each, but even so I instantly knew I wanted them... and I would have been happy to pay that. I was totally astonished when I found out that they cost just £5.99 each. I still find it miraculous that EM have managed to keep this price for so many years. Kudos to them. Considering all the research and work involved in the production of mags & sculpts, and the quality of the finished product, personally I'd be happy to pay up to £9.99 per issue, even if the figures where in resin. I feel it's good value for money, and a price I'd be happy to pay to continue this wonderful collection.
Speaking of price...
When I see the Marvel graphic novel collection currently published by Hachette, at £9.99 each, I find it even more incredible that the CMFC costs just £5.99. The Hachette volumes are just reprints of existing comics, with minimal research & editorial content. Just a basic print job. And they charge £9.99?
I'd rather pay £9.99 for a CMFC issue, where I know the price covers all the image research and editing work, all the character history research, some wonderful original art covers, AND all the masterful designing, sculpting and manufacturing process, AND the actual figurine. In my view, a CMFC issue deserves to be priced £9.99 much more than the Hachette reprint job does. Just my view, of course.
Sweet Moogly Googly , My wife left the computer on a specialist website, she always likes to get things for my birthdays that spice up our bedroom Last year it was balls, big smelly ones , pomanders to you.
The site she was on last night was for Reebok trainers.....MARVEL themed trainers......do you know which "themed " pair she had clicked on?......bearing in mind the range included perennial favorites such as Cap and Wolvie.........CHAMBER??????? A freakin chamber pot would be less embarrassing.
Me like the Cap trainers!
And the Red Skull is another odd choice, too.
Thanks for sharing this - brilliant bit of info on the process which I love to read. It's so helpful and really great to see how the work is approached. Beautifully finished piece.
I think the graphic novel collection is good value for money. Classic stories in a hardback back with some behind the scenes info. Often cheaper than a paperback version printed by marvel.
I doubt the CMFC would have made it to 100 at £9.99.
When you think about it, the Ultimate Graphic Novels Collection is actually sold at a good price considering what is actually inside it.
One of the issues features the Iron Man Extremis story, which consists of six chapters. Now think about when that story first came out, how much money would you have to spend in order to own all the comics featuring that story? I don't know what the prices were back then but I'm paying £2.95 for comics now. Among the comics I have is the Siege storyline, which I know is being put into the Graphic Novels at some point, and it cost me more than £9.99 to buy all the comics featuring that storyline.
So, like Leigh also said, considering what's in the Graphic Novels Collection: The storyline, the hardback, the character's background story, artwork, covers etc, I believe that they are sold at a decent price all in all.
SV
Man, it's so quiet around here lately you can hear Dr. Doom doing his Darth Vader breathing impressions all the way from Latveria!
SV
My subby pack came today, I am holding my own counsel...
Who was in it mate ? spill the beans on paint etc too :)
I remember back in the day. I had a lovely shiney Sega Megadrive,i refused to accept that the Nintendo SNES was the superior machine, Til one night at a mates flat , i tried it when everybody was crashed out. I think i played SF2, and a football game that used 3-D, The SNES really was miles better...took me 20 yrs to admit that.
Anywho received a subby pack yesterday, containing one solitary fig, another box containing a plinth and a bill for £25.97??, phoned steve at EM Mumbai, he assured me the missing fig would be sent within 2-4 weeks (awaiting new stock)Then i sat doon and examined DC fig059 Metamorpho. It is exquisite,the sculpt ,pose and especially the finish. The DC figs really do pish all over the cmfc,It had to be said. If the CMFC is to be reborn please,please do it at the DC scale . The figs may only be %5-%10 larger than the regular cmfc figs but they look far more dynamic, Nightwing looks like he could kick the crap out of the sickly Cap America next to him.
Bought some lovely old Marvel uk titles ,Spidey Comics # 323. Cap is battling some Atlantean villain. And uses the greatest line i have ever read in a comic:
"Mister you can take your sea chauvinism--- and you can shove it right up your SARGASSO!"
The villain was Tyrak the Treacherous....best of luck getting a bank loan with that moniker.
I just got Dracula & Avalanche. I could see through the plastic that Avalanche's hands were malformed & while Dracula looked okay when I opened it he was in two pieces. Pity really. Is EM dropping the ball on purpose because they killed this collection? Hands have always been a problem with these lead figures. Perhaps if they had done more resin figures with the ones with open hands it would have been better for them in replacements & cost.
I don't know what to say now with the collection ended & no new figures coming out we have seen all but Hela. I was hoping maybe they would do a few more specials since the remaining figures would be coming out into next year but Dan has been silent so I guess not. Sad really. I think an ARCHANGEL special would have sold well for them. I think a WARRIORS THREE would do well also as two-packs with FANDRAL & VOLSTAGG in one & HOGUN & SKURGE THE EXECUTIONER in the other. I know many want LOCKJAW to complete the main Inhumans.
I have begged for a TITANIUM MAN Special. He is a classic Ironman baddie & his towering green armored suit will make a great lead Special.
I also begged for one bad guy two-pack with THE COBRA & MR. HYDE. COBRA is regular size & HYDE is a big guy. Both of them together & apart encompass so much of Marvel U's history & have fought most of the important heroes in this Marvel collection.
That's a great story, Ted, one of my favourite Avengers stories. And Doc Doom shows up, too! Pretty certain that story arc was reprinted in a TP last year, so if you want to read the whole thing...
Only Tigershark, Nico Minoru and a binder.
The paint jobs weren't bad to be fair apart from NM's giant webbed hand.
I had a chuckle looking through the noticable appearances Runaways #1, Runaways#2, Runaways #4... you get the idea.
In an era when comic book sales are at their lowest point ever, it surprises me how many recent female characters have appeared in this collection; Nico, X23, Blink, Siryn.
A quick look through the Marvel Wiki female character pages and you realise how thin on the ground decent female characters are. If you take out female versions of male characters, there aren't many at all, and in the last 20 years, no good ones.
So why have they been shoe-horned in?
I would melt them down in a heartbeat if I could swap them for Marrina, Clea, and, er, I'm out.
I would much rather have had the Warriors 3, Lockjaw, Arcade, Unus, The Vanisher, Molecule man, Gargoyle....
Ted, I still refuse to believe the SNES was better than my Mega Drive.
Apart from mario, mario kat, and said International Superstar Soccer...DELUXE...Mega Drive was the console for me. All the Sonics, Toejam & Earl, Streets of Rage, Road Rash, Bonanza Bros, NBA Jam, Earthworm Jim, Spiderman Maximum Carnage and many more.
Anyone looking forward to the football starting tomorrow?
Still got my Sega boxed in the loft , whenever I get all misty eyed with nostalgia , I fire up Desert Strike, Road Rash or the greatest game ever Revenge of Shinobi.and I still have the first Spiderman game , where you had to take a photo during boss battles and save MJ from an acid bath.... It never seemed to bother me when I failed and the annoying harpie died ;)
The best superhero game I ever played was Ex Mutants? Based on a title from Malibu .
I am most certainly looking forward to the football , can't wait to find out where Dundee Utd will start their European adventure :)
Dan Dahling, it would be grand if you could show the lady that will be the closing this collection .
Time tae get ma dug up the wudds
@CGJ - Nico's shovels seem to be an issue for anyone who has mentioned her to date.
I honestly like'd the pics of mighty marvels figurine but guess it was too much to ask that paying customers copies were as good.
A little paint over the lines is one thing but club hands look bloody awful and go straight to the back of the display.
For a character I dont know from Adam it has to be a looker or its just a waste of time/money and display space.
I have had a few figs over the course of the collection with club hands. All females IIRC...isnt that odd.
Gawd knows why we have had so many of them, maybe there is a quota these days like in the Boardroom :P
Were EM pressured into this by the PC brigade or did they just get off their t*ts a couple of times a month and think wouldnt it be funky to give the fans Silver Sable ??
Even when the female choices have been good the finished products have let them down. Moondragon, Destiny for 2 examples.
Archangel rescued Moondragon for me with surgery to remove the headband and a snazzy new paint job.
In his words she was the 'devils spawn' and he's painted every EM fig thats been made. Couldnt get any definition on the resin cloak. Cauliflower ears, club hands.
Shameful.
I had a Jap Megadrive and the ugliest console ever... a US Snes. I loved both equally. I'll never forget the first time I played Sonic. Or the sound of the rings being collected....ahhhh happy memories.
Revenge of Shinobi was awesome and I had that Spidey game on my Master System. Always good to dust off the old consoles and play them now and then.
Havent received Nico yet but judging by responses they are not good. I wonder if I will get lucky with her. *wink wink*
Realise why people complain about the online store now, think its nearly a month since I ordered some DC figurines and that spidey special. Still no news.
GGJ said: "In an era when comic book sales are at their lowest point ever, it surprises me how many recent female characters have appeared in this collection; Nico, X23, Blink, Siryn."
I think I read Runaways has been cancelled four times in a decade. Why choose characters who would appeal to a small proportion of the maybe less than 30,000 buyers of the title? Seems daft. At least the old nutty characters have half a century of MU old codgers folk memory to rely upon.
just had this re resin spiderman Thanks for your e-mail.
Unfortunately we have received notification from the publisher that this collection has been suspended for now.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Male-to-female ratio
Out of the 233 distinct characters in the CMFC, 179 are male and 54 are female. So, female characters account for 23% of the total. It's a rather modest percentage, and a good reflection of the male/female ratio in the actual Marvel Universe. EM have not placed exaggerated emphasis on female characters; rather, in my opinion, they achieved a very fair representation.
1 in 4 may represent the male and female ration in the MU (I highly doubt that, its more a sausage fest of low appearance male villains and bit part characters), but that stat is not represented in GOOD characters. Its not represented in villains associated with certain heroes, it is not representative of the ratio of females in Avengers or X-Men.
In teams of 4 you generally see a token female for the added sex appeal, but I dont think 1 in 4 is representative of the MU.
I can agree on that, the sculpts have been the problem. Honestly, I will buy any character, even if I have no clue who they are, as long as the figurine looks good.
I think more inspiration should have been taken from classic artwork that have defined those characters and made them so memorable.
This is where DC is much better, some of their females look like miniature adam hughes drawings. If the CMFC sculptors could do that, I would buy a whole collection of just females!
Personally I'm not too unhappy with the number of female characters in the CMFC, and I'm not too unhappy with the choices either. My main problem with female characters in the CMFC is the 'not-so-great' artistic rendition which has afflicted them more than male characters. Potentially, even Silver Sable could have been a great figurine, if only she had been sculpted as hot as she looked in her heyday comics: with a foxy face, long wind-swept hair and a sexy/ athletic physique. But the figurine has got nothing remotely like this going on!
As for the line of reasoning that better characters could have been chosen, we know that it applies to all characters, males and females. It's such an endless debate. I guess it's really difficult to come up with an objective set of criteria for the selection of characters.
tsk! I accidentally deleted a post and I had to rewrite it from scratch.
The issue of quality is surely down to cutbacks required due to sticking to the £5.99 price tag. The extra quid on the DC collection certainly seemed well spent, while the CMFC quality comtrol started to go a bit off the rails.
Anyhoo, cancelled today. Very depressing. Will pick up most of the remaining figures from both collections, but the figures I loathed / had never heard of came to about seventy quid, which is about 25% of what I have just spent on the Superman vs Batman Dark Knight Returns statue.
mgf, there is a Dark Knight Returns style Batman and Joker special for the DC chess collection if you're interested. Bought mine, now waiting for the snails to process it.
I've seen the 'Dark Night Returns style' Batman & Joker double-pack in stores. Not great! I'm sorry I can't help but feel that the DC chess figures look like cheap, tacky McDonald's Kids Meal toys. All of the DC chess figures that I have seen - they do not represent any improvement on the figures produced in the classic DC figurine collection. The anatomy is weird (the regular Joker's legs were so absurdly long, he could have been Plastic Man). The poses are samey. Some of the character representations are off (Robin is particularly aweful). The paintwork is a bit shabby, using metallic effect almost to create an illusion of quality or perhaps modernity. This may sound harsh, but I feel that after all the achievements of the classic DC figurine collection, EM could have aimed a bit higher, especially as now they're using resin which allows a high degree of creative freedom. I guess there was no intention to be groundbreaking. But I wish the DC license and this new resin technology could be used to create a more innovative, exciting line of DC figurines. I certainly hope that, if we are to get new Marvel figurines from EM, they will be better than what's happening on the DC front.
EXECUTIONER in THOR 2 movie!!!!!!
EM need to make him as next special.
That's nearly ten minutes I have spent searching for a Ulysses Bloodstone fig, statue, bust, mittens etc..Nowt.
Does such a thing exist?
During my search I found a story arc called Frank- enstein?? About the the reanimated corpse of Frank Castle. Apparently old UB features in it.
Hey maybe , when Marvel release a massive RPG featuring the entire MU, I will get to play as Bloodstone?....rather have a nice statue if it's all the same.
There is an alternate reality in which Blink, Sable, X-23 and syrin never made it into the CMFC .Happily classy ladies like Clea, Thundra, Princess Python and Karnilla did.
CMFC was generally good quality and fairly well painted up until the 141-160 extension.
Maybe that was the time the increased costs meant a move to a different (inferior) paint factory.
Take a look at the official website and from 1-140 its mostly awesomeness with only an occasional blot.
Now look at 141-160
9 of the 20 are females.
Now look at 161-180
8 are females.
Lo and behold cancelled.
Females were cheaper to produce through mass alone. Less lead, less paint to cover them and cheaper transportation costs.
Maybe we wouldnt have gone on as long as we did if EM hadnt been able to save cash on 17 of those 40 by choosing females.
Either way I blame the women :P
http://www.firebox.com/product/5300/Personalised-Superhero-Action-Figures
Just when you think you've seen everything.
Be curious to see who is interested in one of these...
Haha, that actually looks pretty neat. Compared to a pair of Chamber themed loafers, But yet again no Bloodstone option ;) I was excited at the prospect of seeing Ploog and Starlin for my birthday present .However becoming an honest to goodness action figure is truly geektastic.
If as I suspect a lot of you have been severely beaten with an ugly stick, you can use my likeness in order to stop children screaming at the the sight of your personalized doll.
I've noticed that Terrax is now being advertised on the EM shopping site. That's another £15 odd quid gone then :P
While I was chilling out of my bored mind, I decided to roughly work out how much I'll have spent on the collection over the years. I counted all 200 figurines (with the first issue being 2.99 plus the rest) as well as all the specials leading up to Terrax so not including Mojo, Giant-Man or any possible final specials. By the time we reach 200, I'll have spent well over £1,500 on this collection alone! I honestly don't know what else to say about that...
SV
SV, I can easily top that! Being located in USA, I've had to pay a premium to get my hands on all of them since we can't subscribe AND I started collecting the CMFC late (summer of 2010), so I had to pay extra ON top of the premium for back issues. I would guesstimate that I've probably spent around $2600. Never would have thought I would spend so much.
And Dan and Eagkemoss, I want to add that I would STILL gladly pay MORE for another extension! YOU just lost a lucrative customer because I will not buy ANYTHING from Eaglemoss again. Humph!!!
To be fair though, the US dollar is weaker than the pound. While you may pay $12 for a £6 figurine, its not a huge difference. $2600 is roughly £1600 while UK have paid £1500. Unless you still havent bought them all.
I do understand that some US folk will have stumped a fortune though from some retailers who charge way more, or if they had to buy from eBay paying crazy shipping prices on top.
But EM wont be making money from these guys. Obviously they get money through the added business of US retailers buying them to sell on more expensively, or UK buyers buying more figurines to purposely sell abroad. But the extra prices you pay doesnt go into EM's pockets.
Its a shame they havent, or cant sell directly to the US market. I think we can all argee that the collection would still be booming if it did, or, god forgive me for saying this, that this was a US product to begin with and UK buyers had to import.
Oooooo the controversy.
(thats what happens when we dont get an update. :P )
LAWay,
The figurines sell for about 12 to 14 US Dollars here in the States. I get mine by prescribing to Previews, they distribute all things great and small comic related. The only reason my shop sells them is because I ordered them, and now they have a whole case dedicated to the EM figurines.
There is nothing here in the way of advertising, and the figurines are marketed in the magazine section, not toys or collectibles, so that might account for a lack of notice in the U.S.
Um, subscribing to Previews. . . .not prescribing.
subscribe + previews=prescribed
Yeh, I understand that zombie, which is a shame.
I do think if the CMFC was an american product, it would of lasted longer with probably higher production values too ust because the sheer amount of marvel fans who would be in the know, and how much easier it would be for marvel to plug it in their comics or through big retailers.
UK folk would then of had to import them at probably £9.99 at the very least, maybe even £15 as we all know how much UK like to rip us off. I have to hand it to people who import or continue to buy something so regularly without a subscription overseas, cant be easy to find or afford, and to be honest, I very much doubt I would have bought every figurine at that price if the tables were reversed.
Bagman F.F.F., can't seem to contact you through email. Can you contact me? A new commission to show you...
Robert, e-mail sent let me know if you got it.
STILL can't get through to you, Bagman F.F.F. Will try later tonight. Thanks for geting back to me.
How many people have sent a letter?
I sent 1 letter and 1 email. Its really disheartening that not all of our regualrs have sent a letter...
Marvel sold better than DC, as I understood it, and DCs letter campaign got 20 more characters. It seems a no-brainer then that Marvel would have an even better chance at one more extension if its fans were as passionate.
We could be finishing off teams and getting those last few essentials! Lockjaw, Mantis, USAgent, Sunspot, why no letters?! If its because our collections are so big already, this would only be another 20 characters, but more importantly, it gets us a proper send off. Those 20 characters could go a long way toward making our collections look like complete collections.
But if you guys think Enchantress and the Asgardians are fine looking WITHOUT Skurge, Guardians of the Galaxy WITHOUT Star-Lord, Wiccan by himself, no High Evolutionary, because postage costs too much after you've spent a fortune getting the figurines this far, then I guess its time to say goodbye.
I didn't write a letter only because Dan expressly asked us not to. Considering he donates his own time to write this blog and he'd already had his arse kicked over revealing too much to us, it seemed the best thing to do. And, yes, I still want Mantis, the Warriors Three, etc.
Robert, I teach at an elementary school and a middle school. My boss recently told me that its not in the budget for me to be at the middle school next year. I told some of my middle schoolers so it wouldn't be out of the blue come August, and a lot of them complained saying I was their favorite teacher and wanted to petition and show my boss how wanted I was. I told them they probably shouldn't because I still work there (for the elementary) and it might look like I'm begging through kids.
Now I know that if enough students complained, I would stay at the middle school, and I want to very badly (its a job that I love.) I actually really want my students (and their parents) to complain... yet I asked them not to.
But like you said John, its something that could get you in trouble and come off as begging, disingenuous because it seems like you are asking people to do it. Sorry to hear about your position though. I hope it turns out for the best.
If EM hasnt announced the end, they are getting these emails and wondering why. They then start to ask questions, and will be more mad that news has slipped than people saying they want it to continue. They have subscription numbers already that imply an amount of people who want the collection to continue regardless.
WIll the collection really be any more complete with 20 more characters? Ending at 220? Seems weird. DC probably got an extension because there wasnt as many made, so they still had some big names to explore, and it still didnt work. Perhaps EM are burnt by that, that they buckled to the fans and it didnt pay off.
Hoping the best for you that your situation improves John.
In a very similar position myself, John. Returned to primary teaching last year after a good long while away doing other things and my present contract ends in three weeks. Would be great to be invited back but the budget allocation has been cut again. Hopefully we can both get extensions, eh?
You make a very good point about what you have to say and what you mean not always being the same thing.
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